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A Government adviser has argued that docking Child Benefit from the parents of children that skip school will improve attendance rates.
However, opponents have argued that this will take already over-stretched families to the brink.
What do you think?
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0I agree with this to a point, often children are delivered to school only to "make tracks" as soon as the responsible adult has their back turned. There must be an exchange of responsibility if this was to work, but whilst the teaching staff are already stretched thin, I can't see how it would be enforced without needing to spend more money that is better used elsewhere.
Posted on 16 April 2012 |
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38It is nice to see the word children being used rather than the awful but popular term kids. My education never progressed beyond primary level during which time I was a chronic truant so I am commenting from experience. I was the product of a poverty stricken family where violence and arrogance prevailed. My parents never knew that I truanted nor did they see my school report after the age of around 10; I signed and returned it. I avoided homework and would copy that of others. Frequently, all too frequently, I was physically punished and mostly by incompetent teachers. I was an unhappy child but found happiness wandering the local countryside. The Education Act insists that all children be educated yet no one in the profession is ever held accountable when there are failures and this is where the problem lies. More heed needs to be taken of the home circumstances of truants and for teachers to find methods of teaching which would readily engage those children; if they cannot find happiness in the home then there is a need to find it elsewhere and if the law insists that all children be educated then this responsibility passes to them irrespective of whether teachers agree. Most of those truants, although not all, will arise from dysfunctional homes where abuse, arrogance, drunkenness, and violence prevails but if the parents State benefit were reduced owing to the lack of effective parental control (and too often love) then surely this would serve no other purpose than to exacerbate the family's circumstance and add to problems that already exist? In my own circumstances, after leaving school at the age of 14 I started life as an office junior and rose to become the CEO in a large public organisation but, probably more importantly, I loved working for a living. More consideration should be given to this feature for all post puberty children. Tertiary education is the hotbed in society of snobbery which is where the true problem arises but typically those who search for causes tend to look through the wrong end of the microscope; stop punishing the victim! It was my parents who needed educating but especially my father. If there was a wrong way to do things, he did it. I found happiness being independent and self-sufficient, a trait which became imprinted on my nature.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 4 loves
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3I believe that there must be found a way to make parents take responsibility for their child's actions as well as their own. If it means taking a portion their benefits to pay the fines it might make them think twice about letting their charges flout the law. Perhaps losing part of their benefits will encourage discussion with their children about responsibilities as members of society instead of merely turning a blind eye.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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25The problem is our education system.
The teaching staff should concentrate on teaching children to speak English, then on being able to read English and then arithmetic
Only when a child has mastered these essentials should they move on.
As it is, we have children who move through their school life never understanding the basics, they get left behind.
Its the teachers fault and the system.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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92OorWullie, I love your story and thank you for sharing it.
But it rather does debunk the theory that prevails today, that if you haven't had a University education, you're a waste of space and never good to do anything.
I rather suspect, your real world experience from a very young age, enabled you to think "outside the box"; something that formal education (in my humble opinion) stifles. In fact I would go as far as to say, one is almost brainwashed to the extent, that creative thinking becomes really difficult. You almost have to be regarded as a rebel to be able to suggest something that is regarded as stunning.
However, don't be too harsh on teachers.
On a recent Dimbleby lecture, Sir Paul Nurse, a Nobel Prize winner and an inspiring and great speaker, spoke of the teaching of science in our schools and how innovation needs to become the centrepiece in how education is delivered. In particular, he said, don't mix politics with science innovation or creative thinking. I agree 100%, but I suspect the idiots in Westminster won't even understand what he was saying and even if I give them the benefit of the doubt, won't do anything about it.
I can speak from some knowledge on this, as one of my daughters is a teacher and the pressures she is under are unbelievable.
Successive governments that think everything can be measured like a pile of money in a bank. Children that these days, cannot meaningfully be taken to task over bad behaviour. A curriculum that is so tight on content and time, that it's almost impossible to teach in a way that "opens minds". It's become all about exam results and league tables, that in real terms are meaningless. Ofsted reports which carry so much weight with parents, as to become so powerful, that the real value of a school is overridden.
The real fact of the matter is, teachers have on average about 30 minutes of observation with an inspector to prove they are capable. How many people get nervous of "exams?" What about the rest of the year when they're in all probability trying really hard to teach sometimes stubborn individuals and dealing with less than good behaviour in their classes?
There's a lot of myth about what teachers do and the popular press doesn't do anything to help. After all, there's nothing as good as something bad, for a great story.
Of course there are a few bad apples. Show me an industry that doesn't have a few. They exist in every walk of life. But by and large, teachers in this country do a great job, while coping with constant government interference and frankly, government incompetence. But what's new there?
Great post and one that should inspire others reading it to say to themselves; "I can do it!".
Perry525, Its the teachers fault and the system.
I would suggest to you, in the main, it's the later, rather than the former. As I've written above, teachers are required to follow a strict curriculum in order to achieve exam results. Quantity does not necessarily equate to quality. Information overflow, is a recipe for brain shut-down and failure.
However, I do not disagree with you, that the basics are now completely lacking, but as a result of the volume of content in the curriculum. Lack of time on working on the basics, is now showing in a poor end product - the child. And this is at Primary/Junior school level.
By the time they get to my daughter, many are incapable of simple sums and have an inability to read and write even the most basic of tasks. These children are normally targeted for special needs and some succeed. But for others, the damage and lack of self esteem has already been done.
Concentrate on doing the 3 R's well at Primary and Junior (forget everything else other than some "play" type activities, some art, PE etc) and watch the level of success shoot up in Secondary.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 6 loves
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9I am a classroom assistant in a primary school and it is unfair to say it is all down to the teachers if a child struggles. There is limited time with each child and while teachers do all they can it is blatantly obvious which children take their reading home and read with their parents.
There seems to be an attitude among too may parents that the school will educate their children and they can just sit back and relax, relinquishing all responsibility for their children until they get home at which point responsibility can be handed over to TV or computer games.
Children at this level are delivered to the school by hand so there can be no excuse that they are getting to school and then legging it. I know of parents who keep their children off school because they got up late and it's just not convenient to take them in now or because they want to go out and taking the child to school will disrupt their plans.
Sad to say, it is also likely the case that these sorts of parents are not spending child benefit on the child's need (because if they were bothered about the child's needs then they would make sure they get to school) and therefore losing that money is only going to have a negative impact on them and not their children. Maybe having to go for a few weeks without the cash to go out on a Friday night might make them realize just what that money is for.
Just on a side note, well done to all those parents who do care about their children and do work alongside the school to create gifted pupils.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 3 loves
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72I really empathise with OorWullie's story. Likewise, my Father was arrogant and, looking back on it, knew little about life and had even less interest in us children. I also did all my real learning after I left school and ended up in middle management in a big company. I think one of the things that kept me attending school was the threat of discipline. Our teachers were brilliant, now that I am old enough to look back and see it, although I doubt if I thought so at the time. I know a couple of teachers now and they seem to be genuinely concerned about the quality of their work but what I can't understand is why so many kids leave school without the basic skills of life. Certainly, I think more money could be spent on the education system and that it would prove a positive move because state education is finite, unlike, say, the health service, which can never have enough cash. One thing that never seems to be taught is right and wrong - morality asnd manners, for example. How to treat other people.
LastChip stated "Concentrate on doing the 3 R's well at Primary and Junior (forget everything else other than some "play" type activities, some art, PE etc) and watch the level of success shoot up in Secondary.
That would be a great start. However, I think the root cause is also in our choice Governments, past and present. We have a choice of three war-mongering parties at the moment (and have had for many years). This costs us an absolute fortune to the exclusion of properly financing our essential services. I really think we need to forget about traditional party lines and start thinking of what is best for GB. If the Western World had not been in the arab countries for the last 80 years, we would not now be in the wars we have been in for the last 20 years. We would not be overrun with anti-brits, muslims and a sprinkling of terrorists. I have no agenda here but it seems to me that their way of life is not compatible with ours and will not be so for hundreds of years. Similarly with the EU. I voted for a Common Market, not a united Europe. This, also, is costing us 45 millions pounds a day, I am told, money which again should be used to finance our essential services. (For those that think we get a lot back, just look at the Governments figures. We don't!). The EU has not had its accounts balanced for many years and I think the only reason we are still in it is because our PMs are always offered a cosy job there after their spell in this country. I include senior Government officials of every elected party. Without these drains on our wealth, we would be able to provide a far better standard of education for the reduced number of children that would remain in the schooling system!
Posted on 16 April 2012 |
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0Lastchip, r, I agree with virtually all that you say. Both my parents were teachers, my father in a primary school and my mother in what was then a "modern secondary". Both of them spent hours of their own time during terms and holidays simply preparing for the next days/weeks/terms lessons.
I have no idea whether todays teachers are as dedicated (I suspect that most of them are, otherwise the schools would be in a considerably worse state than they are now) but admittedly this was in the days when corporal punishment was allowed.
My mother retired before things changed, but my father continued through the end of this time, and said to me that he was "glad to retire, as when the worst punishment any child could face was a good talking to, it did no good at all".
I don't think a cut in benefits would be likely to do more than get more children abused because they cost the parents money, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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1If a child is absent without the school being informed of illness then a truant officer should call so that the parents are aware. If the problem persists then the child benefit should be cut as the parents are obviously not bothered and not caring for their children.
Children should also be made aware that an education is a passport out of impoverished or unhappy circumstances a lack of it renders them unemployable and so they will stay in a depressed environment.
Cutting child benefit may be the only way to get through to some parents.
Posted on 16 April 2012 | Love 1 love
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881It would work with some parents but not with others. There should be a range of possible sanctions - not just one.
Teachers don't have enough teaching time left after the National Curriculum to make the boring stuff interesting.
Parents no longer seem to be held responsible for the behaviour of their children and no-one is allowed to punish them. If parents could be sued for the damage caused by their children it might help, but there again, those parents generally don't have the resources to be worth a civil suit.
Mike10613 - I don't believe that the truancy rates at Eton would be high enough to need any sanction and in any case I am sure that those parents would make sure that they got value for money.
Mike
Posted on 17 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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62Some great posts which have been a pleasure to read. Unfortunately, the good posts didn't really answer the question. We need to give the rule enforcers power to do the job but, whatever the rules and powers are, all rules and powers should only be applied sensibly and therein lies the problem. I think that on balance the ruling should stand but I am doubtful that it will always be applied productively.
I don't think abusive one liners help at all but that does seem to be the trademark of too many 'bloggers'.
Posted on 23 April 2012 | Love 2 loves
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14Before I put any input regarding the child benefit to be cut or not, I want to share a story too...
When I was at school, there were enough teachers and less pressure for them, as the kids were more well behaved, but by the time I was in high school, I lost a lot of interest because some of the teachers just "assumed" that you're either stupid or very clever, there were no medioca... Because I came over from Hong Kong at the age of 11, they automatically put me in the "dumb" class, then realising that I was actually more clever than that, they immediately put me on the top class, I had so much problem trying to understand things, but they just weren't interested, they thought I was lazy, and even told my parents that. Then half of the time, the teacher were on sick for one thing or the other, so we had a constant stream of substitute teachers, and all they were interested in were to give you a book, you copy from it while they're reading a novel! After a year of that, I started playing truant, but only on the odd lessons, my parents never knew about it (until now probably lol) but ONE substitute teacher, she caught the attention of the whole class BECAUSE she wanted us to have a good education, and for the last 6 weeks of schooling, I didn't play truant at all, worked so hard and even got a "A-" for an English essay, considering my "norm" at the time were between Cs and Ds... I think that's what the school is lack of, the teacher that has enthusiastic to teach ...
Now my thought on the stopping on Child benefits... I have to agree with most of the comments above, you can't single out parents or kids, because some parents do try their best to get their children to school, but if they're out and about AFTER registration, who is to know, but some of the parents don't give a monkey fart what their kids are up to, in bed and expect their own kids to make their way to school.. if they don't show any interest, I can't blame the kids feeling the same... But the government needs to "flush out" the bad parents and stop their benefits and advice the good parents what's going on.
Posted on 24 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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129My grandfather said that he didn't learn anything until after he'd left school (at the age of 13). In reality I suspect that he learnt to read, write and count at school. That was what school was for in those days.
This changed with the 1944 Education Act, where it was proposed that children should learn more... and children were educated in life skills in Secondary Modern Schools, and in academic skills at Grammar Schools... until the 1960s when social engineers decided that life skills were not important and everyone should follow an academic path (of sorts). This has culminated in the absurdity of 50% of young people being expected to go to university.
In an attempt to make schools efficient (following the William Tyndale School affair) the government set up a national curriculum and subsequently set targets for pupils to attain. As always when targets are set, those targets will tend to be met at the expense of the wider attributes of the product. That is quality will be lost in the quest for quantity. Today schools are judged on their exam results, so the schools get the pupils through the exams. As a result, schools do not teach secondary pupils any more, they cram them for the exams.
Don't blame the teachers, most of them are working in a dysfunctional system. If the system is wrong, then no matter how good an individual teacher is they cannot succeed.
What would be a better idea than punishing parents for truants (truants don't stop other children learning), would be to punish parents if their children misbehave in school and disrupt lessons; and for older pupils (for they are pupils and not students when they are at school) they should be denied unemployment and other benefits once they have left school unless they have been signed off by their teachers as not having been disruptive.
Posted on 25 April 2012 | Love 0 loves
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