Getting name off joint mortgage - advice needed

by pippypipster 25 May 2010 |

16 comments | Love

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Hi There
Bit long winded, please bear with me....
Bought house jointly in December 2007 (£195k, 100% repayment mortgage, 5 year fixed mortgage)
I contributed 50% to the mortgage and household bills while living there.
We split up in August 2008 – I moved out of the house, stopped contributing financially immediately.
My ex has continued to pay the mortgage himself ever since we split and lives in the house with his new partner and child.
Currently the house is worth in the region of £175k.

I now wish to get a mortgage but cannot, as my ex’s house still has my name on the mortgage. Recent discussions with him haven’t got me anywhere really, so I want to know my rights and to see if I am being reasonable.

The building society have agreed to the mortgage transfer (he earns much more than I do) but he has said he won’t sign the transfer papers unless I pay him to as he wants to keep me 50% liable as the house is in negative equity.
I have agreed to pay the mortgage transfer fees (about £200) and relinquish all rights to the property all I want is to get my name off it, I don’t want a penny from him!
He has said he is happy to continue paying the mortgage till the 5 year term is up to ensure there are no penalties to pay but he insists that when the 5 year term is up and the house is sold I will have no rights to any of the (at that stage you would expect) positive equity. – I am pretty sure I do have rights

So. To get my name off the mortgage now he wants…
(His words:- Half of what would be the costs if the house was sold, it is only because I am looking to carry on living in the house that the house isn't going to be sold. I am planning on staying here as it is the easiest and cheapest option for me, if I did chose to not stay then of course the house would be sold and you'd need to pay half the dispersant fee, so that is what I'm looking at from you. )

Half the current negative equityHalf the solicitors fee’s (which would only be payable if the house were sold which is isn’t being)Half the redemption fee’s (which would only be payable if the house were sold which is isn’t being)Half the estate agents fee’s (which would only be payable if the house were sold which is isn’t being)
Now I feel sick to death of his attitude and have said I am happy to wait till there is neutral or positive equity and force a sale. I am entitled to a % of any positive equity upon sale.

Does anyone know what I would be entitled to?
Am I being fair or reasonable?
How can I get him to see that signing over now is the thing to do?

Thanks

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Comments (16)

18

champ69 posted
from his point of view, why should he accept the entire negative equity situation ?
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
0

pippypipster posted
To ensure I dont get any future positive equity. I dont see why he should have it both ways.... He says I am entitled to 50% of the debt (which I dont dispute) but he also doesnt want me having any claim on future positive equity.
He fully intends staying there and paying the mortgage for many years, so why tie me in?
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
130

Donna Ferguson posted
Sorry to hear about your situation. We published this article on the topic; How a divorce affects your mortgage
This one may also be helpful: Divorce: Your rights to your money
I think you need professional advice. I don't think there's an easy answer to this question or any legal rights. to what you are entitled to. Have you spoken to your lawyer about it? What is the situation if you let matters lie? will you continue to own 50% of the home? in that case it's surely in your ex's interests to accept a deal with you if he plans to continue paying 100% of the mortgage payments, especially if it goes in value.
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
414

manzanilla posted
Sorry but I can see his point of view. Why should he have to take all the negative equity? But I think asking for half the non existant sale costs is a bit unreasonable.
You aren't entitled to anything. If you want you can take him to court to force a sale, but that would cost you for the legal fees and you would them as he points out, get landed with hae the resulting bill. Apart from that, there is no way of MAKING him settle, so you have to offer an amount wihich is good enough to tempt him to accept. I think you should offer him half the negative equity.
manzanilla
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
414

manzanilla posted
Sorry, I missed this: but he insists that when the 5 year term is up and the house is sold I
will have no rights to any of the (at that stage you would expect)
positive equity. – I am pretty sure I do have rights
Well you will have some rights, but they will be set against the fact that he has paid the mortgage and the buildings insurance and the maintenence for 4.5 years.
manzanilla
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
134

liesarenocomfort posted
Donna has assumed you are married but are you? She is right you need to see a lawyer either way.
My two penneth is I'm afraid I agree with Champ69 and Manzanilla (BTW Manzanilla, what in God's name has happened to your avatar -what is it?!) that it is "fair" you should pay your ex. Why isn't half the negative equity fair?
Put it this way, if your ex agreed you could walk away from the house released from the negative equity mortgage without paying him anything, that would be a FANTASTIC deal for you.
I would give some serious thought to leaving the status quo. Let him pay for the mortgage. Wait five years and for him to come to you when the house is in positive equity. The boot will be on the other foot then. You can then decide how much you'd like then.
Couple more things - valuations are invariably an issue. Don't guess. Get three valuations.
His idea that you won't be entitled to anything in 5 years is utter horlicks.
Why the rush to get another house? You have first hand experience that property ownership is not all it's cracked up to be.

Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
414

manzanilla posted
my avatar is the Spirit Rover from here, http://xkcd.com/695/
more details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_rover
manzanilla
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
134

liesarenocomfort posted
Ha!
(I liked "I thought I analysed that rock really well. Okay I'll do the next one better")
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
879

MikeGG1 posted
Assuming that you waited for the 5 years to end in 2012, you are halfway there already.
There are 2 parts to the positive equity issue. The first is that you had a redemption mortgage, so the amount outstanding at the end of 5 years will have reduced, but not by a great deal. The rate of redemption gradually increases throughout the full term. You would be due about 5% of whatever that amounted to at the end of the 5 year term, based on you contributing half for only 8 months out of the 5 years.
Then there is the issue of the rise or fall of the value of the property over the 5 years. From the proceeds of the sale, all the expenses would need to be taken before assessing whether there had been any profit or loss. You would be entitled to 50% of that, but it could still be negative in 2.5 years.
Whatever that came to plus your 5% share of the mortgage reduction would be your entitlement. It is unlikely to be very much if it isn't negative, which I quite expect if it is down £20,000 at the moment.
He would have had the use of the property for the remainder of the time. Technically, he would be due to pay you rent for your half of it, but I don't think you would be able to get much out of that as you wouldn't be able to let it to anyone else under the terms of the mortgage. At least he is paying all the household expenses now, some of which could be considered as going towards the rent.
If you forced a sale now, there would be no chance of a positive amount and also you would be responsible for half the Early Redemption Charge.
You would be better waiting for the 5 years to end and then settle up with him. At least there is a chance of a positive outcome then. However, you wouldn't be able to get a mortgage in the meantime.
If you must get a mortgage for your own property now, I am afraid that you would need to pay him most of what he is asking. The exception being the proportion of the mortgage reduction should come to you.
You will need a solicitor to deal with it.
Mike
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
25

spidermev posted
I am in a similar situation, long story short- I'm waiting it out.
Posted on 25 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
86

ckm4328 posted
I think there is a practical point here that has been missed.
If your ex proposes to sell after the end of the redemption penalty how does he propose to force you to sign the papers.
Ignouring the moral issues I would point out to him that if he doesn't agree to your current proposal you will not agree any sale in the future and will force him to obtain an order for sale through the courts. This could also interupt any forward purchase.
I would also explain that you will not agree anything other than an equal disposal of the proceeds of sale without him getting the necessary Court Order.
The above will cost him a fortune in legal fees.
I would then enter into sensible negotiations to resolve the problem neither of you are in a good position. I would offer him 25% of the negative equity and go from there.
Bear in mind that a mortgage is a joint and several liability you are each liable for the full amount to the mortgage company not 50%.
Posted on 26 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
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pippypipster posted
Good points. I didnt mention the reason for the split as I wanted to keep thoughts and feelings out of it. BUT after what he did, I am afraid to say I am happy in this instance to put my morals to one side.
I have given him one more opportunity to be reasonable about a mortgage transfer and failing that have said :-
Alternatively I am happy to wait till there is neutral or positive equity and force a sale. I am entitled to a % of any positive equity upon sale. No formal agreement will be signed by myself in the interim.
Should you request I contribute in any way financially or otherwise till the point of sale, I will give you two options. 1. Myself and partner move into the house and contribute 33%. (assuming upon inspection we deem the house fit for purpose and that your family require 2 of the 3 available bedrooms) or 2. I pay a % of the mortgage and then lease back my % to you and your family.
We'll see if that turns him into thinking more reasonably. I suspect not.
Thanks everyone
Posted on 26 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
86

ckm4328 posted
Bear in mind forcing a sale will be difficult and expensive.
While it is fine to take a robust position you are best negotiating this one out to a satisfactory conclusion.
Your right that the Courts would look at his occupation of the property against his contributions to the mortgage but do you really wanted to go that far. This is a question you both need to answer.
Two Solicitors will be very happy for this dipute to be unresolved and they will be the only winners.
Posted on 27 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
1

JusticeForChildren posted
I have spent some time looking at this matter.
On a legal basis he holds almost all the cards and you could end up zith almost nothing, especially if you engage solicitors who are primarily exports in earning money from legal fiascos. Your time there paying can be seen as rent.
On an ethical basis his offer is a bit unfair. Remember that negative equity is neither of your fault, it is a fact of life.
It would be better by far to get it written up in simple agreement and settle on the basis he has given.
Posted on 28 May 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
134

liesarenocomfort posted
@JusticeForChildren and CKM
"solicitors who are primarily exports in earning money from legal fiascos"
and "solicitors will be the only winners"
Ah, those old chestnuts! One of the first things a decent solicitor will do will be to weigh up the potential legal costs of going to court etc. against potential benefit of action taken, and if the sums don't add up, to advise a settlement.
"legal fiascos" frequently arise because clients try and "sort it out themselves" without taking legal advice first.
If you are advising the question asker to sort it out without lawyers I disagree with this advice.
There are numerous issues to consider
Apart from anything else the question asker may be entitled to legal aid.

Posted on 28 May 2010 | Love  0 loves Report
0

Ruthking posted
Hi all,

Hope pippypipster has solved the issue since it has been two years?

I am now in a similar situation. I wonder if anyone here could help as I am afriad that the solicitor is not going to act promptly.

I bought the property jointly with my ex in July 2007, we split up in Apr 2008. I moved out in Apr 2008, my ex paid me off of all my previous contributions and I agreed not to have anything to do with the property. He continues to pay the mortgage himself ever since and lives in the house with his new partner.

I have requested him to take my name off the mortgage deed and the joint ownership several times. He agreed to do so in 2008 and 2010 but never heard from him since. I thought it has been dealt with and never pursued further.

Now I am buying a property, and the credit check shows that my name is still on the mortgage deed. In the meantime, he is selling the property and asks me to sign some papers which means I am still the joint owner.

I have emailed him many times asking about why my name is still on the mortgage but have not got any reply. I have tried to call him but no answer. I have contacted the solicitor who dealt with the property transaction in 2007, he agreed to write to my ex and copy me in. But it has been a while and nothing has happened. I have given the mortgage lender the solicitor's contact details, but I do not know if the solicitor will act promptly.

Could you advise any other things I could do to speed up the process?

Many thanks,

Ruth
Posted on 17 October 2012 | Love 0 loves Report

Getting name off joint mortgage - advice needed

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