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how do you judge wealth/happiness?

by compound200 22 February 2010 |

15 comments | Love

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say you work a 60/70 hour week

earn 40/50k a year

positive

1.better home
2.more luxurious holidays

negative

1.on a weekly basis--less time with family
2.stress/of constant long hours work(unless u lov job)
3.u might hav financial commitments

10/20k a year

positive

1.35/40 hour week(more leisure time with family.
(althou now adays--flexi time is needed)
2.work hours -routine an stable

negative

1.possible debt problems-lower wage
2.possibly hav to rent as you cant get mortgage(not sure good or bad)

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212

SoftwareBear posted
it's all down to the individual and what their goals in life are
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
824

MikeGG1 posted
It is all a matter of your attitude to life. If you are striving to 'keep up with the Joneses', you will never be happy. Even when you have overtaken 'The Joneses', there will be another lot round the corner doing a bit better.
Get you work/life balance in proportion. Have time for the family and friends.
Above all, remember that you are not irreplaceable at work. They can manage when you are not there, so enjoy your time away from it.
You only need enough money to be comfortable! Your kids, if you have any, won't really thank you for leaving them lots in your will. They would much rather have a real Mum and Dad.
Life is too precious to waste.
Mike
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 1 love Report
410

manzanilla posted
Its all up to you. You could actually decide to work 60/70 hour week, not to have a flash lifestyle, but to clear your debts and then look forward to an easier life with more time for your family.
Or you could work long hours before the family arrive and then cut back, possibly increasing when the family is older and eventually leave home.
Or you could work the long hours with a young family, knowing this means your other half doesn't have to work so the kids have a full time stay at home parent.
Lots of ways of skinning the cat. Personally I think i'ts stupid to work just for expensive holidays and nice cars. When I worked long hours I was salting away every penny so that I had options to give up work when I wanted.
And you will never be happy if you compare what you have with other people. There is always someone with a nice holiday home and a gorgeous new kitchen, buying cars for their teenage children to learn to drive on and skiing somewhere fabulous - good luck to them, but I don't that to be happy - although a new kitchen would be nice :)
manzanilla
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
272

Swarbs posted
Personally, I would judge happiness by your attitude when you wake up in the morning. Do you think "Let's get up and go to work" or do you think "Oh no, another day of work, I wish I could just stay at home". If it's the latter, then any amount of salary / holidays / houses will probably not make you happy.
On the other hand, I would judge wealth by your attitude to your finances. When you think of your financial situation, are you relatively calm, or are you thinking "Oh no, another bill, how will I pay for that, must put that on the credit card, how will I pay the mortgage/rent this/next month". Again, if its the latter then no amount of leisure time / flexi time / routine will help make you feel secure and happy with your wealth.
I know it may sound corny, but I think you can be 'wealthier' than someone else even if you earn less and have less money. Because the notionally wealthier person could have a higher salary, but be spending more and worrying more about their money. In contrast, someone on £15k a year could have enough money to comfortably cover all their expenses, because they have learnt to be satisfied with what they have. They are not only happier, but effectively wealthier too, as they are less dependent on money, and hence have more money relative to what they 'need'.
On a side note, I think some mathematician managed to create a Bellman equation to define the relationship between happiness and wealth, including variables such as family life, health etc. But I doubt that's what you were referring to... ;)
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
134

liesarenocomfort posted
An interesting question Compound200!
No-one wants to be on their death-bed clutching their wallet. Then again, it's rather easier for those who are comfortably off to proclaim that "money isn't everything!"
Debt is insidious, and creeps up on those with a high or a low salary.
A similar conundrum is when does someone who is "careful with money" (a creditable aspiration) become a "stingy penny-pincher" (not so).



Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love  0 loves Report
410

manzanilla posted
Debt is insidious, and creeps up on those with a high or a low salary
Not if you have a sensible attitude towards it, it doesn't. Basically NEVER borrow any money except for education/qualifications to improve your earning power OR to buy a house to live in.
(I exclude here using a credit card which is always paid off in full each month OR which is being used to make money because it is at 0% and the repayments are being saved up. Neither of these are real borrowing. And nor is getting a mortgage on a BTL.)
I would also allow a one off purchase of a very cheap second hand car if it is needed to get to work. But after the first one, you should save up the cash for its replacement.
What is insidious is not debt, but the attitude of mind which says, I have worked hard this year, I deserve 2 weeks somewhere nice and Sky and a new car, even though the first will go staright on a credit cards, the second will mean that I can only pay the minimum off my cards each month and the car will be on HP.
I do realise that its easy for those who are well off to proclaim that money isn't everything - but frequently they got to be well off by being very careful with money.
manzanilla
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
14

GrandJury posted
Following on from @Swarbs comment, there can be hidden financial costs to working longer hours. Examples are:
- eating out or getting take-away meals meals rather than eating home-cooked food.
- more frequent treats in search of happiness/relaxation
- less time for shopping etc so less bargain hunting when searching out new clothes
- More expensive cabs and taxis, less public transport.
I could go on and it's probably a cost that can be calculated.
I came across this post the other day and I think it's someway useful in describing this sort of dilema:
"An old [cycling] coach always told him that people have the capacity to be 100% committed to only two and a quarter (2¼) things at one time. If you try to fit any more in something will have to be sacrificed. For most of us, work takes up one point, wife and kids take up another point, and you have a quarter of a point left to play with. "
How many 'points' our of your 2¼ is a job that takes up 60-70 hours per week worth?
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
7

compound200 posted
thx--well thought out replys
at the moment im working 60/70 hours a week for good reason
to clear mortgage/debt quickly--over next 4 years.
this will bring my monthly expenses down from £1400 a month to £250.
i will then be able to half my working hours or choose my working hours,and save
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
134

liesarenocomfort posted
"...but frequently they got to be well off by being very careful with money"
Very true. An interesting book called "8 steps to 7 figures" by Charles Carlson (much better than the corny title suggests) which interviews various US millionaires, many of whom are very ordinary Joes, illustrates this very well.
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
272

Swarbs posted
compound200, I think the main thing for you is that you are working 60/70 hours a week out of choice, and with a certain goal in mind. The work itself is not necessarily the focus, and hence your job will effectively be less than one 'point', to use Grand Jury's analogy. The problem comes when people work 60/70 hours a week because they feel they have to or because their job requires it. Then the job can become the focus of your life, and effectively burden you and prevent you from being happy. If you can put in 60/70 hours a week whilst still having your life / family as the main goal, as it appears you have, you can have the money and still be happy. Still, sooner you that me mate, I get the shakes if I have to do more than 8 hours a day ;)
Posted on 22 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
7

compound200 posted
having to work a 60 hour week just to make committments must be stressful.
i find working the extra hours --you never have time to job un-wind---but you definately have to find a medium.
Posted on 23 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
83

SmudgeButt posted
compound - I think it would be interesting to hear from you again in a few years to see if you have:
a) been able to cut your hours
b) are happy
Long hours become the expectation by many employers and the enhanced wage the expectation of the employee. You say once the mortgage is paid you will be saving - but on lower wages?
Lack of family/social life now might make it harder for you to pick those things up in a few years. I've known lots of people who are on target with their work advancement schedule but then go off the rails because the family/children/friends side of life doesn't fall into place according to their plans.
But maybe you'll get it right - good luck!
Posted on 23 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
416

Mike10613 posted
My health isn't very good, but it's much better than it was. So life has improved. I'm involved with a charity to help children with cancer, compared to them; my life is great. I would like a new car but the one I have goes and get me where I want to go. I have stabilised my health problems a little. I gave up smoking 7 years ago and gave up alcohol a year ago. I am treated with more respect now. I'm not a patient any more, I'm better known as a writer.
I wrote a CV for a doctor last week (no Manzanilla I didn't print it on pastel coloured paper, I emailed it and he can print it himself!). I am helping a few business people with problems including business plans and research.
I'm sitting in my kitchen in the warm. I need some fresh air but it's snowing; apart from the lack of fresh air and constantly looking at a computer screen gives me a headache things aren't bad.
I have no debts and that is better than most people can manage, my car and everything is paid for and I have a bond that should mature before the interest rates rocket. I'm good at research. When I heard about Zopa on here, I didn't write about it. I put my money in and I'll see if it's any good. Then I'll write about it, so far my money is sitting there earning no interest because no one has borrowed it yet. The people needing loans seem irresponsible with money; but compared to me most people are.
I get pleasure from helping people and do it for free, tomorrow I will be at a community centre advising on photography, digital imaging, computing, creative writing and I'll probably do some counselling.
I already have lots of friends on the Internet and they all read the novel I wrote last year and I enjoyed writing it. I may have to rewrite it. Everyone says it's good, except me. I think it's too long and too slow at the beginning. I answer questions on here and unlike the journalists who can't criticise Santander or American Express; I am free to do so. I will only curtail that freedom when they pay me not to make fun of them! I mainly write comedy and so have a lot of fun. I have Star Trek fans getting interested in my charity now. I have business people following my blogs and even what I post about what I read. I read a book by George Soros, that must have impressed them.
Life is not a rehearsal and it doesn't go the way we want it to. Life coaching and cognitive behaviour therapy are booming because so many people are lonely, anxious and depressed. I even advise life coaches on dynamic psychology; one even impressed me last night; she knew that cortisol is a stress hormone!
I think you will find you can have just as much fun in an English park as on a Mediterranean beach and it will be just as warm if you happen to pick the right day! It helps to have the right company whichever location you choose. Work 70 hours a week for a while if you can enjoy the rest of your life on the proceeds, but don't waste all your life working 70 hours a week; unless you enjoy the work. I can write 20,000 words in a weekend and enjoy it. That isn't really work though.

Posted on 23 February 2010 | Love 2 loves Report
7

compound200 posted
brilliant post mike 10613
smudge butt---working less hours--i will still be able to save as mortgage an debt will be paid off.more importantly--no more bank loans.
not sure they keep posts on here for 4 years for an update
Posted on 23 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report
41

lovelindstrom posted
Mike that's a great comment :)
Posted on 24 February 2010 | Love 0 loves Report