Follow this topicFollow this topic Knowledge » The economy

The Grim Reality Of 2009

Bruce Jackson
by Lovemoney Staff Bruce Jackson on 15 January 2009  |  Comments 53 comments

Stock markets are tanking again and the economy stinks. But amidst the gloom, we have spotted Baroness Vadera's green shoots of recovery. There is just one catch.

It has all gone pear-shaped again. World stock markets are in a spin. The recession is biting. The news is bad. The weather is cold. It's all a little too depressing.

But then again, people like me aren't supposed to be saying things like "it's depressing". We aren't supposed to be gloomy, for fear we'll make a bad situation even worse.

If I say the economy is bad, and if I say you should stop spending, and if I say house prices are going to continue to fall, and if I say the recession will last the rest of this year and into the next, and if I say unemployment will peak at over 3 million, and if I say these are the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression, then all the above really will happen.

Oops. Too late. I've said it now.

I guess it could be worse. I could be a Newcastle United fan.

Silly Baroness Vadera

Silly old Baroness Vadera, the Business Minister. According to bbc.co.uk, she recently said she was seeing a "few green shoots" of economic recovery. I'm not sure what green shoots she was referring to. Was it green shoots on the top of the imported organic carrots at her local Sainsbury (LSE: SBRY), Tesco (LSE: TSCO) or Morrisons (LSE: MRW) superstores? In the midst of this cold winter, I can't imagine she'd seen green shoots anywhere much else.

Of course, there aren't any green shoots of economic recovery. Baroness Vadera's `crime' was to not so much that she got it wrong, but that she was seen to be out of touch with ordinary people like you and I - people who've seen their overall wealth cut by 30% or more, people who are fearful for their jobs, if they still have one, and people who are therefore being very cautious and rightly conservative with their money during these highly uncertain times.

Having said that, I can see where Baroness Vadera was coming from. Like all of us, she wants the economy to recover. It's not going to recover whilst people like me say "save, don't spend". Baroness Vadera is certainly not going to say that.

Her job depends on Labour being returned to power, and if we're in a deep recession come election time, that is simply not going to happen. Still, Baroness Vadera is probably financially comfortable, having previously been employed for over 14 years at investment bank UBS. Investment banks used to pay massive bonuses, but not last year, and not this year either.

Spend Up Dear People

So Baroness Vadera talks up the economy. It's the government's job, it's her job, and her job depends on it. Spend up dear people and the economy will be fixed quicker than you can say "I'm buying an investment property now, because interest rates are at record lows, rents are relatively stable and more than cover the mortgage, house prices are cheap, and viewed over a 20 year period, it should provide me with a stonking return."

Here at the Motley Fool, we don't have to worry about politics. We speak the truth. As a reminder, our company's name was taken from Shakespeare, whose wise fools both instructed and amused, and could speak the truth to the king - without getting their heads lopped off. Right now, the economic truth hurts. The stock market truth hurts. Employment prospects stink. There is no light at the end of the long and dark tunnel.

Throwing Billions At The Problem

World governments are trying their best to stimulate growth. They are committing billions of yuan, yen, euros, dollars and pounds to infrastructure projects across the globe. Central banks are slashing interest rates to levels that are virtually non-existent. Yet it is still not working.

The faster government create jobs, the private sector eliminates them. Even as the base rate falls, banks still won't lend, and still won't drop rates to anywhere near the 1.5% level of base interest rates here in the UK.

And what about VAT? Do you feel flush with cash, and more willing to spend, now VAT is 15% and not 17.5%? I don't think so.

All that said, government action is probably better than no action at all. If they did nothing, who's to say the whole global banking system wouldn't have collapsed, with individuals losing their life savings as banks like HBOS, Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley failed?

Recession Is Better Than Depression

For all the government's actions, all it can hope for is a milder and shorter recession than otherwise would have been the case. But let's put it in perspective. When I say milder, I mean recession rather than depression. When I say shorter, I mean years rather than close to a decade.

Hope is the operative word. The government hopes. We hope. Things will get better. Green shots will appear. But right here and now, we all need to be realistic. Spending is out. Saving is in. Welcome to the grim reality of 2009.

More: My 5 Stock Market Resolutions For 2009 | Naive 20-Year Olds Make The Best Investors

> If you have the savings bug, compare savings accounts here at The Motley Fool.

> Bruce Jackson doesn't have an interest in any of the companies mentioned in this article.

Enjoyed this? Show it some love

Twitter
General

Comments (53)

  • JnathanLiamSwift
    Love rating 0
    JnathanLiamSwift said

    Last paragraph typo - Green shots/shoots will appear

    Report on 15 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • teecee90
    Love rating 0
    teecee90 said

    Yawn.

    Report on 15 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Mark0768
    Love rating 0
    Mark0768 said

    With reference to Baroness Vadera I’m an ordinary person and I want hear her opinion. The problem is the media decides who ordinary people are, the media decides what I want to hear, now all I hear on the news headlines is that she has apologised, and nothing about the context of what she actually meant.

    How can these individuals dismiss people so quickly, when all the facts and figures they are quoting now come from the organisation and individuals who did not see the recession coming in the first place ??

    There are a lot of people out there ‘The Not So Ordinary’ who really should step of their imaginary clever cloud, and realise they could not even predict the colour of grass.

    Report on 15 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Terrapin1
    Love rating 0
    Terrapin1 said

    Well I decided to take a look for myself at all the gloom today- M&S was positively heaving and full price goods were being bought big time. The car park was full of decent cars and even the car washing bloke seemed to be doing ok.

    I think the media are having an easy ride with all this- after all good news doesn't sell papers.

    We just need the banks to behave themselves, and give credit to the 90%+ who are working.

    Report on 15 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • slowjack
    Love rating 0
    slowjack said

    I do think the paragraph on "Silly Baroness Vadera" is trying to make the facs fit the headline. The author says that he was not sure what green shots she was refering to but if he hads read in full the BBC article he linked to he would have seen that she was referring to the fact that a large company had recently been able to raise a loan of several hundred million pounds, something she describes as inconceivale a few months before and which represented some real lending.

    Banks starting to lend again is a prerequisite for any recovery and the author's time would have been better spent discussing whether or not the "green shoot" that the Baroness has seen was in fact a green shot

    Slowjack

    Report on 15 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Staintunerider
    Love rating 0
    Staintunerider said

    All the government has to do is use the nationalised banks to start lending in competition against the greedy self serving lot and thy'll have to change their ways. Believe me i have sold to Investment banks for 20 year's. They employ a lot of smart people but collectively mainly because the lot that run them(people like Varley and the now ex the shred at RBS who are over confident and arrogant) are as stupid as oxen. They can never see more than 6 months down the line. Whatever happens they will have to be lead to where we want to go to get this ship UK moving again.

    Oh and bankers, if you are listening if you don't start to lend and property ever did fall 50 percent from peak, you'll have so many people entering into IVA and bankruptcy, you'll get hit for billions again and many of you will be finished for good. By not lending you are creating the situation you fear most but then remember my oxen slander.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • petitemisschief
    Love rating 22
    petitemisschief said

    Whilst I realise that some people have been affected and my job is by no means secure I'm actually much better off than a year ago - my mortgage has reduced by 25% (on a nationwide tracker) petrol prices have come down. Fuel prices have stabilised with the potential to reduce and food prices hav stabilised so at the momnet I'm not full of doom and gloom.

    I saved up and spent as much as usual at CHristmas and I'm planning a holiday and somehome improvements this year that I will save for. There must be thousands like me so I do believe this recession is being hyped by 24 hour media into something far worse than it is and the media has talked us into this recession.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • churchill123
    Love rating 0
    churchill123 said

    When are the media going to wake up and smell the coffee??

    Tax cuts put more money back into the economy and allow people to spend, not loans, they just put people into more debt.

    Most people have very little in the way of disposable income because of mortgages, debts, high utilities and council tax. Isn't it time the government cut us all some slack and funded some real tax cuts rather than the derisory Vat cut?

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • miketarrant
    Love rating 0
    miketarrant said

    I think it ludicrous that a government minister should be a baroness - perhaps she should keep to polishing her tiara in future.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • fedup1946
    Love rating 0
    fedup1946 said

    Hello, I agree in part with Terrapin1, Why MUST the Media insist on spreading doom & Gloom and keep reminding us the % of people that are ,sadly, unemployed, Surely,they should be telling us just how many millions are STILL employed ! and paying taxes, Which will all add to the efforts to improve the economy, in some small way. So come on people lets stop being So DOWNHEARTED!!!!

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • xxzarr
    Love rating 0
    xxzarr said

    Someone just tell me why is the A14 / A1 / M25 so busy, why was Tescos, last Saturday at lunchtime, so busy it took me longer to get through checkout than it did to buy the weeks shopping? If according to the Mail or BBC the world is coming to an end tomorrow why is the stock market 4200 points +?

    And why havn't HMG made arrests over the senior bankers who made these mistakes, or the seniors at the FSA. Why did they walk away with their massive pensions and bonuses. Unemployment is at 2m over a working population of 35m, at it's peak in 1992 it was 3m/28m and in the early 80's it was 3m/25m, so when will the media stop lying and tell some truths and facts, because they are talking themselves out of a job. No newspaper sales, no jobs, unless you work for the BBC... sod it I am going to the pub.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • sgtwolf
    Love rating 0
    sgtwolf said

    I wonder if the credit crunch is dismissed as a media hype by the thousands of British people who has lost their jobs in the last few weeks.

    The worst mistake to make now is to think that it will all sort itself out. Why would incredibly inflated property prices in the UK ever recover to silly levels again?

    If we consume more than we produce, the economy will, when at inflated levels, burst. In the same way a pesons heart will stop when they are obese enough as a result of years of over consumption.

    USA and UK are the biggest overconsumption states, and not suprisingly did the recession start there and will also reach its lowest levels there.

    The only consolation is that money does not make you happy. If the economic downturn means that you cannot afford the latest 50" Plasma screen, the latest games console and a new car, then is that such a bad thing? If anything the wellfare has produced a nation of obese consumers.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • HoxtonBoy
    Love rating 0
    HoxtonBoy said

    Yes let's pretend everything is fine and hey presto it will be by Labour spin magic. I'm H-A-P-P-Y etc.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • english52
    Love rating 0
    english52 said

    i have to agree with churhill123 when will this government give proper tax cuts the only people who are going to spend are the ones who have jobs so give proper tax cuts and cut the rates

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • chris280
    Love rating 0
    chris280 said

    We all know the economy is in the mire. But Mr Jackson to say that TMF speaks the truth and does not fear politicians???????????

    Who's truth are you speaking? Is it the truth that is used by you and all journalists to provoke, or, is it the real factual truth? The truth that allows ordinary people to make clear informed decisions.

    TMF has become a lemming like all the rest, the cliff is approaching guys be warned, commonsense is on the way.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • franklyatdusk
    Love rating 0
    franklyatdusk said

    to be perfectly honest at the end of the day, one should say 'people like you and me', not 'people like you and I'

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • 40ishAndWary
    Love rating 0
    40ishAndWary said

    It is unfortunately still early days for this recession. A year passed between the date that Lehman was not able to sell any more toxic securities and the date the firm actually collapsed.

    Similarly sectors that have seen business casualties already will see an ever increasing number of firms go to the wall with the associated loss of jobs. The pace of business failures is likely to be exponential this year.

    Media that serves those sectors; be they red tops or pink pages are bound to shout about the things that affect their readership. Read more than one newspapers and keep your own counsel.

    If you have a nice middle class lifestyle, with the kids in a good school and nice cars depreciating quietly on the drive be extremely grateful.

    Work hard to keep your job. Save hard to build a mountain of emergency cash. Put off your discretionary consumption - upscale holidays, home improvement, cars, furniture and electricals.

    If you are middle class you are massively better off than most, please don't let the fact you have a job and a cheap mortgage lull you into a false sense of security. This economy is going to get unbelievably tough.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Grobbendonk
    Love rating 27
    Grobbendonk said

    Having read the transcript of the interview, I can see how she stumbled into saying the wrong thing, but I was really narked at the reporter for failing to ask the obvious - "What green shoots?"

    If she'd been able to clarify, we'd either be able to laugh at the usual lies/incompetence that our politicians perpetrate, or have an understanding of what she actually meant.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • pdcovers
    Love rating 1
    pdcovers said

    FDR said

    We have nothing to fear save fear itself.

    Most contributors to TMF appear to be doing their best to forget this.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Orintex
    Love rating 0
    Orintex said

    I'm beginning to think the government doing nothing wouldn't have been such a bad idea.

    Take the Presbyterian Mutual for example. In their wisdom our government pledged to back 'Banks' with their gambling bonus-seeking speculating fat cats, but left mutual societies like the Credit Unions and the PMS to their own devices (because they're sensible and can look after themselves).

    The presbyterian mutual took very few risks in their investments. They make millions in rent and loan interest payments, but never exposed themselves to the Bernard Madoffs of this world. Investors could expect 6% year in, year out.

    As a direct result of our government's actions some unscrupulous banks sent out circulars to Presbyterian Mutual members stating "In the PMS your money isn't safe; give it to us and the government will protect it". This caused a rush, leaving this most stable of safe investments unable to meet immediate cash demands and be forced in to administration.

    Who's to blame? the usual crew.

    The banks for their usual greedy self-seeking practices

    and the government for their usual "save the reckless at the expense of the cautious" approach.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • everybear
    Love rating 0
    everybear said

    Several people mentioned that Tesco was busy and that is a sign that things are ok and green shoots are shooting.

    However we do not know what people are spending their money on. Could it be that people are buying more budget items and fewer ready meals. Perhaps people are making their own lunches and coffees instead of buying them. Also it could be that more people are entertaining at home instead of going out. I know I now make my own lunch to take to work.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • foolishsceptic
    Love rating 7
    foolishsceptic said

    Well I hought this was a great article and a realistic assessment of govt policy to 'spend, spend, spend' in the hope that we are all feeling better by the time the election comes in May 2010. Agree that many of those in jobs might be feeling smug and better that a few months ago (other than when they look at the latest value of their property, pension fund and savings income) but do they fully realise the consequences of £1 trillion in govt (ie taxpayer) debt by 2011 and a further £1 trillion liability for currently unfunded public sector pensions which will have to be paid for at some time within the next generation or so! Current policies are creating some massive problems which have yet to come home to roost. I pity whoever is in govt and whoever is a taxpayer on above average earnings between 2011 and 2020.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Pitachok
    Love rating 21
    Pitachok said

    No, you go for it Bruce.

    By the worst estimates house prices might fall another 25%, leaving millions of even prudent home buyers in negative equity. The stock market may have given negative returns over the last decade, worse even than the pathetic savings rates on offer today, but it is still 7%+ off its ten year low so could fall a lot further. This could be the start of a decade-long depression.

    The US economy, on which we rely, might collapse under a mountain of debt and the European Union, shackled to a one-size-fits-all currency, might find it falls to pieces state by state.

    Already there are suggestions that capitalism is doomed and with the growth of China we might find the world order turned upside down and we're living in an altogether less individualistic society. At least then the journalists would have to think more about what they say.

    And let's not forget that the last great depression ended in a world war. Armageddon is truly coming.

    Or perhaps all this negative speculation is actually damaging. True it might not cause disasters to happen but the last thing we need is a nation of doomsayers and manic depressives who wish for calamity if for no other reason than it keeps everyone else as poor as they are.

    I don't want an email every morning from a journalist telling me how bad they think things can get when they know as little about the future as everyone else. I know that if I'd just lost my job I'd want someone looking for the green shoots. I'd want a financial journalist to give me advice on how I can keep my head above water and give me a heads up as to where the opportunities might arise when they do come, which they will. Let's not ignore our problems but at least look for those green shoots so we can nurture them when they appear.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Mark0768
    Love rating 0
    Mark0768 said

    Everyone’s situation is different, I consider myself as being average, so this is my situation:

    I'm on a slightly above average wage, I have average debt about 6K and a fixed rate mortgage, I ‘m still employed

    I pay 4.75% interest on my mortgage, and the bank is currently benefiting from my overpayments.

    I have purchased a few items this year and have paid less VAT, although it is not really noticeable.

    I'm paying less for my fuel at the moment than I did last year.

    I don't need a new car or a new house.

    Overall I seem to have a little more available cash.

    The media reporting about the credit crunch makes me feel like I should reduce my spending, even though I know this would be bad, once I have been multiply by a few other million average people that’s a lot of money out of retailer pockets.

    I feel like I should be saving more and clearing my debt - This would mean I would be keeping more money in the bank, and with my fixed rate mortgage payments their now doing very nicely out of me.

    Even though I have some small understanding of the situation, decisions I make are effected by what I read and hear, the government are trying to fix the problem, by injecting money into the economy, but the influence from the media is making us all more cautious, because they love to scare people.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • amacbishop
    Love rating 0
    amacbishop said

    In the past when these recessions have hit they have been exacerbated by the press as I believe this one has been. The average consumer of the news has been happy to accept that this is the state of things and the constant hammering of doom about the stock market has caused people to save rather than spend causing reduced profits and closure of large retailers causing losses of jobs ... down the spiral we go...

    This time is different. I've never heard more people aware of the role the media has played in the deepening of this situation and it is down to the fact that more people have a bigger platform to spread their thoughts - this old internet.

    If all those who are currently in employment and getting paid exactly what they were getting paid a year ago (conservative est 20 million in the UK?) co-ordinated their spending on UK-produced goods, once a month buying something they wouldn't otherwise have bought because of caution over the economy (say an average of 100 GBP), the consumers of this nation could inject 2 billion GBP into the economy every month, stopping the failure of the very businesses that employ them.

    The internet. That's what we need. Connect people and co-ordinate our spending. Today the UK. Tomorrow Europe. Er, Sunday the World!

    I have an open Facebook group called 'I say b*llocks to a recession' with this in mind. Join and we can find out if this theory just might work...

    How's that for optimism?

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • OhMichael
    Love rating 0
    OhMichael said

    Lets understand one thing about the Baroness's statement. The green shoots she sees is the one that INVESTMENT bankers see, cos that is all she is. This green shoot is the falling rate of LIBOR and closing to the "normal" differences that this has to interest rates. Unfortunately she forgot to mention that the measuring stick has changed! Before the LIBOR rate was compared to the rate of issued 3 month gilt rates. There have been no 3 month gilt rates for months! She was comparing against interst rates and as LIBOR always drags intrest rates by weeks there was bound to be a reduction a fall. This being as a month ago interest rates fell by 1% and the last rate was only 0.5%, thus the gap was bound to shrink. But lets get this depression into perspective this government has distrpoyed the savings culture, Pep and Tessa's allowed £7,800 per annum against the current £7,200 with a majority of the tax advantages "recovered" by the steath taxes. The "Goldilocks" era is gone and was never sustainable!

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • KESSY777
    Love rating 0
    KESSY777 said

    DON'T GET ME WRONG ; I BELIEVE IN CAPITALISM BUT NOT IN ITS PRESENT FORM Certain areas of the economy need a reality check . Look at the retailers and their £20 tee shirts they buy for a few pound s from the poor sods in Bangladesh. Trouble for the retailers is that their landlords thought a real gravy train was up and running so they'd join in the free for all .Look at the debauchery in the city of London where you just can't seem to get at the people who make the crazy money .Are they truly 20 or 30 or a 100 times worth more than your average man in the street ? i'm a manufacturer and i wish i could get the returns on the fact that i have a P.h.d. work my but off invent all sorts of conundrum breaking solutions to problems , invest , employ and all we got over the last 10 years was slaughtered over an inflated pound which did not in conventional terms reflect the state of the economy , excessive globalisation ,witness the financial boys become the lions share of the economy , government thinking ;this is a great pollution free way to make money and bugger all our working class followers in manufacturing .Look where it got them , especially vis a vis germany who made all those profits over the years when we continued to make losses ( are good ) because some silly bunch re -defined economics

    The economy will get sorted out , partly with the government's intervention but mostly because of rather nasty events beyond their control. Maybe out of that may emerge a fairer capitalism where people can still get rich through , hardwork , ability, luck and risk taking

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • jacknizzy
    Love rating 0
    jacknizzy said

    This is my first post - so go easy on me, please.

    I always enjoy reading the comments but, only now, felt compeled to post a wholehearted agreement with Staintunerider who seemed to me to be talking a lot of sense.

    I may be naive but for the PM and Chancellor to be moaning about non-compliant banks [in the sense that they're not lending when they have been encouraged to do so] seems a nonsense when the government and taxpayers already own a number of them. Do as Staintunerider suggests - let Northern Rock et al offer such attractive rates that no-one would be tempted to go anywhere else with an investment or to seek a mortgage. Surely then the rest of them would have to follow suit and the market would be revived?

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • jacknizzy
    Love rating 0
    jacknizzy said

    Wow! Two posts in as many minutes! I'm a stickler for linguistic accuracy [English teacher] and noticed a typo on my earlier post - 'compeled' should read 'compelled'. Sorry.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Yorkstyke
    Love rating 89
    Yorkstyke said

    Had Baroness Vadera been smoking a few green shoots before making such a stupid statement?

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • HK33UK
    Love rating 0
    HK33UK said

    Good news from North Yorkshire. Yesterday it took ages to get a parking space in the local Tesco. There was apparently a clothing sale and people were buying stuff like it was going out of style, or perhaps it was. The guy in front of me at the check out bought 5 large bags of the stuff, perhaps he was a market trader replenishing his stock. Better news, at the heath centre this morning the car park was barely half full which is very unusual. Does this show that we are getting healthier, or perhaps people cannot afford the prescription charges.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • shepherd2008
    Love rating 0
    shepherd2008 said

    Yet again the herd respond to the spin and rumour of media and government.

    Nobody is ever going to admit the truth of why this 'crisis' has happened or who created it. They will just give you a generalisation of it being a global issue and pass the buck elsewhere!

    To me the fault is easily traced directly back to the banks themselves. The very banks that will again benefit from a huge mistake because we will bail them out having been held ransom by them for a while.

    The banks lent too much on over inflated house prices. Dodgy mortgage brokers with buyers and their 15x salary mortgages where wrestleing with grabbing sellers being hyped by the media 'property boom' articles etc etc.

    125%, 130% mortgages only added to the overinflated eventual selling prices as sellers needed to recoup as much as they could.

    It will settle but we will be back here again as the cycle come and goes and we never learn.

    It will be our teenage kids that will lose/benefit from the next one.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Wobbers
    Love rating 0
    Wobbers said

    We Spend 37 odd billion of our money on banks, get them out of the mess they created, lower intrest rates to 1.5%, banks DON'T pass on rates to customers and hey presto the banks have re-inflated theirselves AND top up their "emergancy" capital at the same time.

    Does anyone think they have robbed us twice?!

    An underhand way of recapitalising? I think so.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • shoishoi
    Love rating 0
    shoishoi said

    >>It’s not going to recover whilst people like me say “save, don’t spend”.<<

    Wow, you are important.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • shoishoi
    Love rating 0
    shoishoi said

    >>It’s not going to recover whilst people like me say “save, don’t spend”.<<

    Wow, you are important.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • rouncil
    Love rating 0
    rouncil said

    'out of touch with ordinary people like you and I' - should be 'you and me' (accusative not subjective).

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • UpHillAllTheWay
    Love rating 38
    UpHillAllTheWay said

    Yes, we have concentrated 20 years' spending into 10 years, and yes, the economy is on its knees, but our reaction to is is all down to perception. 6 months before the crunch, house prices were still rising because it was the general perception that they were worth paying for. Credit companies were trying to press loans on us with every new delivery of mail, because it was their perception they would get it back with interest.

    Our perceptions have changed now, and they had better stay changed for a long time, because if we continue to spend more than we can make as a nation, the more fuel wood we are adding to the pile, and when the bonfire eventually goes up, the fire will be fiercer. But as Bruce says, a recession is better than a depression, so can we really blame Baroness Vadera for trying to change our perception? The government wants to get people spending to make money flow again, because if it doesn't the economy will congeal. People will only spend if their perception is that we have turned the corner. All she said was "Green shoots" - she didn't say it was all over!

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • UpHillAllTheWay
    Love rating 38
    UpHillAllTheWay said

    Rouncil, I disagree with your comment. "'out of touch with ordinary people like you and I' - should be 'you and me' (accusative not subjective)."

    Try adding the verb to make sense of it.

    "out of touch with ordinary people like you [are] and I [am]' - not "me [am]"!

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • MrRee007
    Love rating 0
    MrRee007 said

    You will only realise that the green shoots were there when the flower is in bloom ..... I personally think we have a way to go before there is any good news.

    But, mortgages are cheaper, petrol is cheaper, food and clothes are being given away ;-)

    It's not as bad as it could be .....

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Patsy09
    Love rating 0
    Patsy09 said

    Please note that the phrase "ordinary people like you and I" was not followed by a verb and therefore should read "ordinary people like you and me". I know the use of "I" in this way is common these days but it is incorrect.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • UpHillAllTheWay
    Love rating 38
    UpHillAllTheWay said

    Well, there won't be any good news till people's perceptions change, and in my view, Baroness Vadera was just trying to do her bit.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • ducatidave
    Love rating 0
    ducatidave said

    Bruce Jackson's comments seem designed to justify the media having a poke at efforts to improve sentiment. It is sentiment that stops people from spending and Banks from lending and shares from going up.

    When will the media stop leading the ecconomy down hill? No more negative spin please.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • JnathanLiamSwift
    Love rating 0
    JnathanLiamSwift said

    Ordinary people dont like me..

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • lareck
    Love rating 0
    lareck said

    If Robert Peston can cause banking shares to collapse by reporting bad news, what's so wrong about Baroness Vadera trying to reverse the trend?

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • teecee90
    Love rating 0
    teecee90 said

    Yawn

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AdAstra100
    Love rating 26
    AdAstra100 said

    I have seen the green shoots of recovery! Unfortunately for Gordon, it was in the newly sprouting blackmarket in 100 watt light bulbs.

    With all the big stores bullied into withdrawing stocks, our local hardware store has now swept their stock under the counter! If you ask for a 100watt bulb, once they feel you are not a commissar from the energy, thought or elf'n safety police, they will sell you as many as you can reasonably want and with no profiteering!

    Just like post war UK and the Soviet economy.Sigh! Thank you Brown.

    Regards

    AdAstra

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • colin106
    Love rating 0
    colin106 said

    40ishAndWary says the economy is going to get unbelievably bad.

    He is so right. If afraid we aint seen nothing yet.

    Report on 16 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • soapwelder
    Love rating 0
    soapwelder said

    KESSY777 suggests a new capitalism may emerge eventualy from the present financial mess. If it does I hope more businesses are run along the lines of the John Lewis model - no fat cats at the top, no shares or shareholders, just management and staff (partners) with a direct financial interest in the business. Evidently customers notice the difference for they put John Lewis and Waitrose well ahead of most competitors in the Christmas spending spree. As a regular shopper at Waitrose I find staff attitude towards customers is on a different plane to that in most other supermarkets. Now, if only we could persuade them to go into banking.....

    Report on 17 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • lorrainejones21
    Love rating 0
    lorrainejones21 said

    On the day it was announced that Gordon Brown was encouraging banks to lend to small businesses that were going to the wall at a rate of 100 per day my husband had an appointment with our bank manager to ask for help to keep our business afloat after 24 years trading. The answer was NO to our request for either an increased overdraft or a small business loan. HSBC would rather stand by and watch as we go under before they will lift a finger to help. Where do we turn now? It's not all media hype - it's happening to real hard working people out there just trying to make an honest living.

    Report on 17 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • smerfdoobrie
    Love rating 0
    smerfdoobrie said

    Well I'm quite happy with the VAT reduction -if nothing else it means I pay a tiny bit less for my fuel.As for the "depression" -well having been burned in the last stock exchange swindle -ie the late 90's I have not gambled any more money on the London Roulette wheel so have not lost anything there.I feel absolutely no sympathy for the mugs who have as even Wikkopedia will explain a ponzi scheme to you. I paid for my house in 1990 (lived in a caravan for 8 years to do that) -no worries about that mortgage b/s then. My only regret is not switching my life savings to euros this time last year which would have seen me walk away with a 30% profit-sod the pound why aren't we in the euro anyway? My interest now is in what happens to those comapnies/individuals (PUNCH TAVERNS) with yen/Swiss Franc loans) whose interest rates were low in times of artificially high sterling values but now with the pound worth less than a used Johnnie-what happens to them?

    Finally as one of those "touched" by the geniuses at Equitable Life-how dare that Scum claim to be outraged by the actions of government when they are the ossers who threw away my money in the first place?

    Finally why isn't National Savings in your best buy column or is this yet another web site funded by the bankers?

    Report on 17 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • petitemisschief
    Love rating 22
    petitemisschief said

    I was lived through the recession in the 70's early 80's and believe me that was a most depressing time. I left school at a time when there were very few jobs, we lived through strikes, 3 day weeks, we saw whole communities disappear where I live in yorkshire through the decimation of the coal and steel industry, it really was a time of no hope and it was where a lot of the current problems with society stemmed from.

    When I compare whats happening now with then there is no comparison. We are much more savvy these days, much more aware of what we need to do to survive this. The countries industries are different and more likely to bounce back, there is much mor ambition in ordinary people to make a better future for themselves. Having lived through the 70's the 80's and the 90's and know how to cut my cloth and make ends meet I don't fear this recession as I beleive it will be short lived compared to what I've seen before and having lived through previous ones have stuck to a lifestyle where i save for things I want so except for a mortgae and car loan I have no debt and have a savings cushion.

    Perhaps younger people who have only ever seen good times can learn from this - we all learn best from our mistakes

    Report on 17 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Max878
    Love rating 37
    Max878 said

    Jacknizzy - Acttually, I've been thinking exactly the same thing. The Government is now in a position to demonstrate exactly what it thinks the banks should be doing. So why don't they? There may be valid reasons why, but I can't think of any.

    Report on 17 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Adam999
    Love rating 0
    Adam999 said

    Bit late to add to this, but I don't see anything wrong with a little optimism. With Slimy Peston of the BBC spreading doom and gloom we need something to look forward to. OK, maybe these plans aren't going to treble our disposable income overnight but at least something is being tried, however you feel about it.

    Good on her for trying to look to the future.

    As for the full Tescos and busy roads, who knows why this is? Tescos might soon be the only company trading and given that they offer everything from food and fuel to clothes and specs most people are taking advantage of this, saving fuel and time by getting as much as they can from one place- sensible thinking in my book.

    My company has been hit, badly- our last 6 months trading was 50% down and we made redundancies. We're being hit hard because we supply the retail sector and buy from the EU. We're down, but we're not out, and we're taking every day as a new step, being positive about every order we get and it's getting us through the tough times.

    Maybe Peston the Doom-monger could read and take heed- yes it's bad but what's happened to our spirit? We're in this together, we might not be to blame but that's life. Now you can either grab it by the scruff of its neck, drag it back and fight, or go down with a whimper, moaning about everyone else and having done jack all yourself.

    # Always look on the bright side of life.... #

    Report on 19 January 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

Post a comment

Sign in or register to post a reply.

Our top deals

Credit card
company
Balance transfers rate and period Representative
APR
Apply
now

Barclaycard 27Mth Platinum Visa

0% for 27 months (2.98% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 18.9% PA (variable). BT fee reduced from 3.9% to 2.98% (T&Cs apply).

Barclaycard 26Mth Platinum Visa

0% for 26 months (2.47% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 18.9% PA (variable). BT fee reduced from 3.5% to 2.47% (T&Cs apply)

NatWest Platinum MasterCard

0% for 26 months (2.65% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 18.95% PA (variable).
W3C  Thank you for using The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse