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Would you ever go on strike?

John Fitzsimons on 10 September 2012 |

41 comments

With large trade unions talking of strike action ahead, would you ever join the picket line?

Strikes are back at the top of the news agenda, with talk of co-ordinated strikes between two of the nation’s biggest trade unions.

The latest protests will once again surround the issue of public sector pay, in particular the pay freeze the Government is implementing.

Unison and GMB have said that their members will strike if there is no change in the situation, while the TUC will also be tackling the issue at its annual Congress which takes place this week.

Just last week the National Union of Teachers voted to strike over the “erosion” of their pay and working conditions. It may attempt to strike in unison with the NASUWT teachers’ union, which has already voted in favour of industrial action.

With the prospect of so much industrial action ahead, have you ever been on strike? What was the issue? Would you ever consider going on strike in the future? Does industrial action and protest make any difference?

Let us know your thoughts in the comment box below.

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13

pc2574 said

With so many laws and regulations in the British workplace, the need for the right to strike to remain is questionable. These days it seems only to be used to demand more money by holding the public to ransom (or in this case to protest against a reduction). It is horrible to have to cut back, but a partial cutback for all is better than people losing their jobs.

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47

teafoo said

Really can't think of any circumstances when I would go on strike.
It seems to be one of the most thoughtless and selfish courses of action anyone could take.
If you have a job, consider yourself fortunate - then why should you want to be greedy, go on strike and make the situation worse?
Public sector workers going on strike is downright rude and insulting to those who pay them - yes, the taxpayer. Public sector pensions will also be paid by the taxpayer!
Striking is so short-sighted.
And don't let us hear ' we have no option but to take action' - meaning inaction.

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9

elcadobes said

I do get the feeling this idea is to promote some of the egos of union leaders. I just cannot see many in the private sector supporting a strike, although the unions may get the public sector to support them, although it does seem from previous votes that the numbers who actually vote is very small compared to the total membership.

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disbeliever said

The right to strike is needed now more than it has been for many years. The erosion of pay and conditions is real, as British employees are paying for a crisis they did not cause. If pc2574 wants examples of holding the public to ransom, (s)he should look at their energy and food bills. These rises are not caused by greedy workers, but by profiteering companies. The debt crisis was not caused by Trades Unions, but by financial institutions, who convinced the then Labour Government that they were "too big to fail". The reality was that they were too greedy and stupid to succeed, and should have been allowed to go to the wall.

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electricblue said

The self-employed don't have the option to strike, so for employees, unless it were an issue of safety or rights as opposed to the usual monetary greed, my opinion is that if you don't like your job then have the conviction to find another or work for yourself. Otherwise consider that they must be paying you what you are worth and if you don't like that argument, improve your value to the employer in some way.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 5 loves
31

Mark Harmer said

electricblue, I 100% agree. I think to go on strike over pay / conditions (unless a genuine safety issue) is a sign of people who are out of touch with the people they serve.
Striking is a public-sector disease. Self-employed people care too much about their work / customers to hold them to ransom (which is what striking is). And you never hear of the private sector / charity sector striking.

If you are in the public sector and are unhappy with your lot, then increase your value, or if you have a genuine sense of entitlement, negotiate with your bosses by all means, but going on strike is a slap in the face to those who aren't lucky enough to have well-paid jobs (or even, any jobs).

And if you don't think you are paid enough, and can't add value to what you do, walk away from your job and find something (or create something) where you are valued, and make way for someone who needs the work and is willing to do it.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 4 loves
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Pennym said

I think it is disgusting that people cripple our Country by constantly going on strike. I work hard for my pay and resent having to pay more tax for people who are already overpaid. No wonder there have to be so many staff cut-backs.The public sector receive higher pensions / salary increases than most private sector employees but they are still not satisfied. The majority of Companies in the private sector put a freeze on pay increases which has already lasted years. When will it stop!!!!

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47

teafoo said

Disbeliever - I think you are so, so wrong. Short-sighted.

It is not just British employees paying for a crisis - it is also savers who are suffering for the selfishness of so many people; yes, the material society, want it now, pay for it later, or borrow, borrow and not pay it back society.

No, it is not just profiteering, it is also the Union members, not just financial institutions, but also the biggest 'institution' of them all Gordon Brown's government that allowed it to run downhill.

And we were all there, but did nothing about it - but now so many workers are doing what we expect these days - trying to find someone else to blame. "Not me, guv!'

Agree with Pennym - a minority crippling the country.
Teachers: what were the figures .. ? 82.5% of a turnout of 27% = 22.3% in total? That's not a majority, that's not democracy. It's slaughter by an oligarchy.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 2 loves
6

spanmik said

TUC suggesting strikes should look at Greece and see how well it helped that country.

What's more it was Blair and Brown who caused the problems that the coalition is trying to repair. Furthermore who put Miliband in as Labour leader? Ah, yes the unions.

Noticed most people would not strike.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 3 loves
265

oldhenry said

There seems to be a lack of knowledge of how capitalism works on these pages. It works by exploiting workers, simple as that. The only way workers can react to that is by combining and taking action in withdrawing labour.
Now continous governmnet have tried to stop that , of course, to further capitalism which makes them, and temptingly us, richer. But it does not in the long run because capitalist will exploit workers and consumers to further profits , this of course means that you pay more for teh same goods.
But, there is an oversupply of labour in this country( over populated) so capitalists are not bothered about withdrawal of labour, there is plenty more- many illegal immigrants will work for peanuts anyway.
How to resolve this problem? That is the part , but it will change just as teh Labour movement came about to btter working conditions so will change come about to put capitalists to the back of the queue for the resources, rather than teh front.
Sadly ,most UK voters seem very ignorant on the issues really faced by this country and vote for the most smiley slime- ball who is standing that has hair.

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6

mfr1958 said

Well said disbeliever. The other posters completely miss the point! It is the GREED of the private sector that caused this. What planet are you lot living in? Do you not understand that taxpayers - which actually includes public sector workers believe it or not - SUBSIDISE the private sector through tax incentives! So please spare me the usual claptrap! If it wasn't for the unions' actions over the years you simply would not enjoy the rights you now enjoy. Grow up!

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 5 loves
599

Mike10613 said

No one likes going out of strike, people lose pay. However in the past few years energy, petrol and food prices have increased 50% and wages haven't kept pace. Unions have the power to ask members if they want to strike to maintain their standard of living. That isn't greed, many have families to provide for. We could get into an inflationary spiral however, with rising prices chasing rising wages and vice versa. Maybe it's time the government did something to restrict bonuses and pay rises for those earning above average salaries? If Bob the Banker can get obscene bonuses. Why not ordinary union members?

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mfr1958 said

Spot on henry.

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62

ronat42 said

Striking is a little like warfare and it is unusual for either to create a situation where anyone is really better off afterwards. Unfortunately both are usually the result of greed, self interest, incompetence or intransigence or a combination of 2 or more of these. I think electrciblue has put it most simply and correctly but I also believe that there are situations of extreme unfairness where strikes can be justified. However, it is difficult to use that argument in the current situation as those who have caused the problem are unlikely to be affected in any way by the strike action and that is the most infuriating factor. Many people feel that their peers or equals in other disciplines are better rewarded than themselves and this is the cause of many disputes.
As far as the question asked I feel unable to answer as I remember turning down two good career opportunities because one of the terms of employment was compulsory union membership but many are not in a position to do that.
What we must all remember is that the current situation is a result of actions by those who have sufficient power or immunity to escape the real results of their actions and what we need are leaders who are competent, well informed and have a high degree of integrity. Unfortunately I do not see many union leaders with those qualities.

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47

teafoo said

That's not what capitalism is about, oldhenry. It may be your and many socialist/Labour/Liebour views .. used to whip up support from the unthinkers.
mfr1958 - save us a load of usual rubbish! It may be the greed of Society as a whole - fed by socialist rubbish and consumerism, loans, borrowing and let's not bother to pay it back --
mike10613 - the unions might possibly have a right to ask members, but they don't have a right to strike on a minority figure. They know it but will go ahead as the few leaders wish. 22% is not a majority.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 3 loves
1

ortonc said

Two of you here have talked about "increase your value to your employer". I have worked in both public and private sectors - that doesn't work in the public sector as it is now. It's not about impressing your boss to get a promotion as you do in the private sector. Our pay has been frozen for years, it is now decreasing annually. There is no promotion and hasn't been for a long time. We are working later and later into the evening and at weekends in my department for a reducing salary. The most we are allowed to hope for is to hold onto our jobs. It's not as easy as "get another job", because for many of us who are vital front line staff our jobs don't have an equivalent in the private sector. So yes, I will be out on strike again in the autumn as I have been this year and last year, because the government is our employer, and they are point blank refusing to listen to us.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 1 love
20

amips said

SACK THE GREEDY STRIKERS!
There are loads of (qualified) unemployed out there just BEGGING for a job, including recently qualified young teachers who DON'T think they have a God-given right to a 50% final salary scheme pension plus 2.5x annual salary cash lump sum.
HOW SELFISH CAN YOU GET when the majority of intelligent people can see that we have been paying out more than we get in over many years now. We MUST correct this for the sake of our children and our country.

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30

muira said

without unions and the power to strike,many productive workers (actually making things or operating things with their hands) .

would be back in workhouse conditions of the victorian era

with a government obsessed with taxing income/outgoings of average hard working people,and management obsessed with targets and performance,they need all the help they can get..

unions and strikes do work,,they give the shock factor back.

mind you if i was a politician or banker,or high flying boss,millionaire,playboy etc
i would think different,because the rules are different

floggings will continue until morale improves,viva the revolution!!!

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 1 love
47

teafoo said

muira
you seem to overlook that interest rates have been cut for so long to help the 'average hard working people' who apparently have no regard at all for previously hard working people whose main support is now their savings.
Or maybe the pension funds have been looted to support the strikers...

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2

paramed said

I said YES to the online vote to strike. My wages have dropped due to the pay freeze and the Ambulance service that employs me now want to reduce my pay band and impose unfair working conditions. This is going to effect my standard of living and my pension, not to mention my health

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643

electricblue said

Seems to me that a public sector worker stating that there is no equivalent job in the private sector is confirming what we already know - many of those in the public sector are a waste of space. Having lectures in the way capitalism works from people who never created a job in their lives is also pretty laughable. Sheer bigotry to raise issues of illegal immigrants. I doubt that the hordes of Chinese working in fast food are going to cripple the UK economy. The notion that industry in general has any major reliance on illegal workers is a joke. As for farming, if the British born unemployed were rushing to find seasonal work harvesting and such like there would never have been any jobs for immigrants (legal or otherwise) in the first place. Unions helped shape industrial relations in the UK ,as have two world wars and various health epidemics, but the notion of protecting the poor vulnerable workers from exploitative capitalism is utter leftist claptrap.

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308

Iamcoldsteve said

ortonc said

It's not as easy as "get another job", because for many of us who are vital front line staff our jobs don't have an equivalent in the private sector. So yes, I will be out on strike again in the autumn as I have been this year and last year, because the government is our employer, and they are point blank refusing to listen to us.

You can 'get another job' just not maybe what you are doing now. You will probably even get some opportunities for 'retraining' anyway -and at the tax payers expense.
AND, the Gov't is NOT your employer. It would seem that there are a lot of public sector that get this fundementally wrong. The TAX PAYER is your employer. You are ultimately responsible to the public you 'serve'. You are 'point blank refusing' to listen to YOUR employer, and causing them considerable distruption when you have your little jolly outside with your fire in a dustbin. Most people in the private sector also have had pay freezes and reduced pay, cutbacks, lower pension contributions, redundancies etc. But it seems to be a different matter when it comes to the public sector having to reduce spending, because of the banks and the Union supported Labour party. We HAVE to get out the hole the loonie leftists dug. It is not going to be easy, and it's going to be a long slog.

But back to topic.

I cannot support striking. It is counter productive and just shows how empty the 'ideas tank' really is.
The only people it hurts are the very same people who 'employ' you and you 'serve'.

If people really do not like their job, then go do something else. It always makes me laugh when people say a particular area is underpaid, and yet for every vacancy there are 10's of suitable people applying. Simple economics would show that they are not underpaid.

There are FAR too many 'non-jobs', 'jobsworths' and incompetant people enjoying being paid by the tax payer and not offering any sense of value at all. These people need to wake up and smell the coffee, or simply go and do something else and get paid for their real worth.

There is so much waste in the public sector, waste that would not be tolerated in the private sector.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 3 loves
0

helenleckie said

I striked last year about the proposed changes to NHS pensions, and I believe our action helped the union negotiate a fairer deal there, though of course we list something. Public sector workers don't have a lot of other bargaining tools - not many of us can use our skills easily in the private sector. I don't believe in striking just because of not getting a pay increase (so don't support the TUC's call today to strike), but when the government decides that it's going to save money by reneging on past agreements, then I do believe in striking.

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 0 loves
30

muira said

teafoo

i am well aware of interest rates,suffering myself in that dept..

bad mistake to rely on savings as a sole income,or a pension

and not the fault of hard working people

and the pension i have, is also now taxed and not as promised.

pension funds are looted by administrators and the taxman

not by hard working people,or strikers

if the interest rate was higher,i would be delighted..no delirious!!..

but my son and many.other people,trying to survive,because of greed by unscrupulous

profit driven organisations,would go under..

was in the same situation myself,about 20 years ago..not much changes..

prepare for harder times!!..they have'nt got up to speed yet..

Report on 10 September 2012 | Love 1 love
1

79stephen79 said

I voted 'No' to the online poll. I work 'for' the people of my local community (although my employer is the government, for those above who feel the need to make some sort of distinction). I worked for a number of years as a consultant - largely on government commissions due to my area of expertise. On average I 'earned' £100k a year for my company in fees from the government, of which I was paid £18k a year salary. I then moved to be directly employed by the government and was paid £27k. I consider this a good deal for both parties; I'm doing the same job, the government is paying substantially less for my services - the only people losing out are the company directors who took a huge proportion of fees in their six-figure salaries; it is hard to weep for them. I would normally consider myself a free-market believer, but the recent comments from politicians in power about respecting our millionaire wealth-creators in the same way as our olympians and paralympians makes me sick and shows how far the moral compass has broken in those wealthy enough not to care.
Nevertheless, I will not be striking, ever. I do genuinely believe in working to improve things and if it irked me that much I would simply move jobs, as I have done before, and no doubt will again.

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31

Mark Harmer said

@79stephen79 Fantastic to read something from someone with a sense of morality and service. Thank you!! More power to you.

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77

bengilda said

If you don't like your job and its terms of employment then go elsewhere. If you are public sector employee then you are not producing wealth for the nation but are living off the backs of those in the private sector who are producing wealth.
Public sector wages should therefore generally be about 5 - 10% lower than the equivalent in the private sector locally to take into account the lack of value to the country, lower per head productivity and the security of a guaranteed pension.
Strikes called by a clear majority of Union members should be just that, a minimum of at least 55% of paid up members, and this should be enshrined in law as a protection to both union member employees and employers.
But employers should also have some form of protection against radical unionism and if a strike cannot be settled by negotiation, an enforced settlement should be imposed which, if not accepted by any striking employees, can require the dismissal of those.

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54

sludgeguts said

I worked in the 'care industry' for many years and was asked and told to strike by unions - I refused. As far as I am concerned, you knew the pay & conditions when you applied & if you didn't like them, you shouldn't have accepted the job.
What has always annoyed me, though, is the way the hierarchy of public sector get to vote their own salaries & whenever they talk about cutting back, they never get rid of one senior, always half a dozen or more at the bottom of the pile.

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2

bparsons said

I am self employed so there is no pension unless I pay for it, no sick pay, no holiday pay. I am fairly sure my income is being eroded by occasional lack of work.
My working week seems to run at around 70 hours. I think I might write a stern letter to myself outlining why I deserve much more and that I may strike!! At least the ballot will be quick and easy.

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0

Familyman said

I am a Firefighter and reluctantly voted to strike, I love my job and put my heart and soul into it but 1/2 way to my pension I am now told I will have to work for 5 years longer than was promised, I will also have to pay more in each month (already pay 11%), (for 5 years longer of course) and get less out! No pay rise for 3 years and no sign of that changing. "But you've got a job" I hear ELECTRICBLUE and MARK HARMER saying or "improve your value", well, we have lost many,many jobs and stations throughout the country over a number of years and attendance times, (absolutely critical to us), have suffered leading to greater risks to the public and ourselves. As for improving our value, we regularly receive new equipment and training to deal with new threats/risks (not just plane crashes, bombs and chemical attacks but even things we are sworn to secrecy over!) All these are in addition to the role I undertook when I started and none of which has resulted in more pay.
I have to say though that we can't just blame the banks for this mess, schools and parents should teach children about basic budgeting, it's not rocket science just common sense, discipline and patience.
I guess while the bankers are still getting their huge saleries and bonuses (paid for by quantitive easing probably!) and do not appear to be suffering like the rest of us, they will rightly get most of the blame.

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109

Aitken B said

I voted yes in the poll. Although I have never struck it is a basic right for someone to withdraw their labour.
It seems to me that some people believe that the austerity we are being forced to endure courtesy of the Government and the bankers does not apply to them. In some cases it is because they can extort what they like from their "customers" and sometimes it is because they believe they are isolated from the economy by being government employees. It used to be the case that they had a lower pay structure in return for the almost impossibility of losing their job and a pension unattainable in the real life of the private sector. This is no longer the case. Their pay structure is now as good as and often better than that of the private sector.
Then there's Trade Union leaders. Not all of them perhaps but there are some who still believe it is their role to dictate Government policy and actions as they did in the 70s.
I suspect that the proposed general strike will be promoted as all about pay and conditions and there might even be an element of that but the strikes will, in fact, be mostly politically motivatated.
I would much prefer that no-one lost ground on pay and conditions but ordinary private sector workers and pensioners are being adversely affected whether we like it or not so I see no reason why public sector workers should not share the pain. They might say that they did not cause the problem - but then again neither did I.

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308

Iamcoldsteve said

"it is a basic right for someone to withdraw their labour"
Is it not, then, a 'basic right' for an employer to withdraw the offer of work?
It seems that employment law is stacked in favour of the employee, who can strike 'whenever they feel like it' but the employer doesn't have the right to reduce the workforce 'when they feel like it'.
How very odd.

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142

MK22 said

lamcoldsteve, can I assure you, as someone who has had his right to work removed by his employer, that the employment law is totally stacked in favour of the EMPLOYER. All the employer has to do is re-shuffle the workplace and call it redundancy and you are out of the door (ask a number of former Cabinet members). Thatcher and all subsequent Tory politicians, and obviously you, think that this is a perfectly fair way of running employment. And sadly Labour don't seem to disagree or they would have scrapped the Tory employment legislation.

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Iamcoldsteve said

MK22
I have been on both sides of this and I can tell you the amount of work to sack someone is incredible. I have also been made redundant, when the company re-located.
So, I do not agree with your comment of "All the employer has to do is re-shuffle the workplace and call it redundancy and you are out of the door"

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109

Aitken B said

I agree with Iamcoldsteve. The employer should have the right to withdraw the offer of work. Unscrupulous employers need to be "controlled" but the present regime is hugely skewed towards the employee.

I see it no different to employing a window cleaner on a, say, once a month basis. If you wish to dispense with his/her services you just say so. If she came to you and said "I'm pregnant now and will be taking maternity leave so here's my bank account details for my maternity pay and I'll see you in a year if I decide to come back to my job”, I'm sure you would laugh and tell her, ever so politely, to p*** off.

It's only because of political pressure by socialist dreamers that we have the outrageous situation we have now. An employer will not wish to get rid of an employee who is a positive force in his/her business and if the job really is redundant the employer would wish to keep faith with a good employee in the hope that the business would pick up again and need the good worker again.

All these restrictions merely allow low grade or lazy workers to hide behind legislation.

Many people in the UK know ALL about their “rights” and next to nothing about their responsibilities.

Like Iamcoldsteve I also have been an employee and an employer and unless you are a large employer, which I was not, that can afford a whole department to handle the deluge of paperwork surrounding employment you end up vowing never to directly employ anyone ever again. HMG treat you as a free part of the Civil Service and heap all sorts of requirements on you that have nothing to do with running your business.

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142

MK22 said

The trouble with all this right wing claptrap being peddled here is that people believe it and vote for it. If only we had a socialist opposition in this country to point out to people an alternative path..... (And are the Trade Unions as employers any better I wonder?)

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109

Aitken B said

The trouble with all the socialist claptrap is that when enough people believe it, as in the times just before 1979 and 2010, we end up in deep dodo.
M Thacher had her faults but she said one true thing -
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. ”

Report on 11 September 2012 | Love 1 love
41

Arblaster said

Electric Blue said - "The self-employed don't have the option to strike, so for employees, unless it were an issue of safety or rights as opposed to the usual monetary greed, my opinion is that if you don't like your job then have the conviction to find another or work for yourself. Otherwise consider that they must be paying you what you are worth and if you don't like that argument, improve your value to the employer in some way."

Electric Blue understands nothing about business. Apart from tax and attitude, there is little difference between someone who is self-employed, and someone employed by someone else. The employee is selling something: he is selling his time, his labour, his skills.

If you go into a shop and buy a packet of cigarettes, if you do not have the money to pay for them, the cigarettes go right back on the shelf, and they will stay there until you can pay for them, or until somebody else buys them. Similarly, if your employer cannot meet your price, then you withdraw your time until he can come up with a better deal.

It is nothing new. During the Middle Ages, the Swiss Mercenaries would say to their employer: "Point d'argent, point de Suisse." If they were not paid, they would walk right off the battlefield.

The problem today is that both employers and the employees themselves regard employees as slaves who can be pushed around by their masters. A strike is a way of saying: "If you can't pay the price of my product, you don't get it."

The monkeys who do not have the pluck to stick up for themselves are just plain yellow. They deserve what they get - peanuts.

Report on 12 September 2012 | Love 0 loves
643

electricblue said

I don't think that I could reasonably include firefighters or paramedics in my comments about finding alternative employment or betterment. I don't know how we could also protect those in other healthcare professions who deserve special treatment - but we also do have too many theorists and pen-pushers in the public sector who couldn't do a decent day's work to save their lives and anyone who is admitting that they don't have transferable skills is really stating their true worth to the rest of us. Just to remind people that we didn't just have a supposedy Socialist opposition, we had them in government and the path they led us on was knee-deep in sh*t, as has always been the case in the past.
Odd that I 'understand nothing about business' - I'm running a company and have been self employed for 30 years, bringing products from sketch to retail sales and training people to make them.

Report on 12 September 2012 | Love 0 loves
33

mambach said

I love how people still think that we have a public sector.
Look at the memberships of the unions in question. Teachers - employed by schools, which are businesses. Nursing and NHS staff - primary care trust, which is a business. Binmen and council bureacrats and dinnerladies and...- most of these services are provided by private companies.
The public sector now consists of a list of jobs and a bloke to hand out the contracts. Since the company is about making money for shareholders. the game becomes 'how little can we do with how few people'
The public sector put tax money in and got services out. The privatised sector puts tax money in and gets profits out.
As for striking - those few who are employees can, but the run the risk of being fired - illegal, but that's hardly going to stop the likes of any of the employers we're talking about.
It does seem odd to me that the going rate for teaching is less than the minimum threshold to pay back the Student Loan you need for the degree to get in. I'm told nursing pay in graduate positions is similar.

Report on 18 September 2012 | Love 1 love
14

DaveDB said

Striking in the Public Sector is a form of blackmail. In the Private Sector, if your firm prices itself out of the market and you lose your job, you have only yourself to blame. War never has a happy ending for everybody involved.

Report on 18 September 2012 | Love 0 loves

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