Question Of The Week #2: Is Now A Good Time For Me To Start A Pension?

Jane Baker
by Lovemoney Staff Jane Baker on 05 December 2008  |  Comments 18 comments

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Every Friday we're going to pick out our favourite question which we think might interest other Fools too. Maybe next week we'll choose yours!

Thanks go to Moresweety for this week's question:

Is Now A Good Time For Me To Start A Pension?

Moresweety says:

"I am 24 years old and have just reached the year point with my employer who has now offered me to take part in a pension scheme where if I contribute 3% of my salary they will contribute 6%. This is only an offer that can be taken up at the year point and would then change to a lesser offer.

Can anyone give me a bit of advice whether I should take the plunge and start it now or leave it a couple of years?"

My take on Moresweety's dilemma

I've always backed pensions as one of the best ways to save for retirement for many people, so this question was bound to catch my eye. Many people don't like pensions and don't trust pension companies. But if you don't do anything, your lifestyle in retirement could be pretty miserable.

In Moresweety's case the first question is whether a 3% deduction in salary is affordable. Moresweety may have large non-mortgage debts - perhaps from student days. If that's the case, you could argue that the debt should be paid down first.

ThatLindseyGuy posts:

"If what you say is true then your company scheme is extremely generous and you should take them up on this offer right away, assuming you can afford to do without 3% of your salary. Think of it as being like a savings account where your company put in £2 of its own money for every £1 you deposit."

(Read ThatLindseyGuy's response and others here.)

Assuming Moresweety can afford the contributions, the scheme on offer does seem particularly good. After all, many employers aren't willing to pay into a pension for their staff at all. And it's rare for employers to go beyond matching contributions £1 for £1 at best.

So Moresweety's scheme at £2 for £1 is an unusual and very tempting offer of free money. A large employer contribution will help to build up pension savings far more quickly than Moresweety could manage alone.

It's interesting that there's only one chance to accept the offer on these terms now. I wonder whether the company is trying to limit its pension liabilities by making the window of opportunity very small.

If Moresweety decides to go down the pension route the sooner, the better. Pensions need plenty of time to grow to work at their best, so getting started at 24 will give Moresweety an excellent head-start. Delaying, even for just a few years, can have a massive impact on the final value of the pension pot.

That said, on the other side of the argument, Highlifeinspain says:

"Unfortunately, speaking from experience, I would say: Don't do it. I am not saying don't save for your retirement, I am saying save in a vehicle other than a `very restrictive' pension. I saw the value of my pension pot crash to the point where I would have been better saving in a piggy bank. My suggestion [is] to choose a vehicle other than a pension. ISA's fit that bill perfectly."

(Read the full response here.)

What about the stock market?

Highlifeinspain's point is a pretty common criticism of pensions. It's true there's no way of knowing how your pension will perform, and the stock market has had a pretty rough ride lately. But I would say three things: 

First, Moresweety's employer may offer access to a financial adviser for staff who need help in deciding where they should invest their pension contributions. If it's available, Moresweety should take it.

Second, there's no doubt millions of pounds have been wiped off the value of pension funds as the stock market has weakened. This is very bad news for people who have reached retirement or are close to it.

But Moresweety is only 24 so this pension could be invested in the stock market for over 40 years. This should be a sufficient timescale to build up a decent pension pot in spite of the peaks and troughs of the stock market over that time (although, there are no guarantees.)

Historical performance suggests that shares produce a real return (that is, after inflation) of around 6% a year, which has easily beaten cash savings. That said I can't be certain this will continue in the future.

And third, now could actually be a very good time to start investing in a pension. While the stock market is down, Moresweety will have the opportunity to buy more shares while they're cheap. Then when the stock market recovers, those cheap shares will be poised to grow in value.

Are ISAs better?

From an investment and tax perspective pensions and ISAs are broadly similar, but some people prefer ISAs as a way of saving for retirement. Money can be withdrawn from an ISA at any time. You don't even need to wait until you retire. And you can take as much cash out as you like, when you like.

But with pensions there's no access until you reach 55 at the earliest. And even then there are pretty strict rules on taking benefits from your pension pot. Read Pensions Versus ISAs  to find out more. 

That said, by choosing an ISA over the pension, Moresweety will miss out on the valuable employer contributions. I think that makes the case for this pension pretty compelling.

If Moresweety chooses the staff pension scheme, 9% of salary will be invested in the pension fund. While that's a pretty good start, it's sensible to increase that amount as time goes by. Moresweety could consider taking out an ISA for these extra savings, rather than using the same pension. This will help to spread risk and provide some access.

Look out for Question of the Week #3 next Friday.

Editor's Note: This article should not be seen as individual advice for Moresweety. We don't know Moresweety's financial circumstances so we can't say for sure whether saving in a pension is appropriate now or in the future.

More: Question Of The Week #1: Index-Trackers Versus Investment Trusts | How Saving For Your Pension Will Get Easier | Check out Q&A here

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Comments (18)

  • shampoodave
    Love rating 0
    shampoodave said

    Na,steer clear of the pension fund malarky. Spread your money about with other saving techniques.It could be said that most people don,t get out of the pot what they put in the pot....and anuity funds are very much geared in the favour of fund managing companies.Pensions have been well and truly found out to be a waste of time just recently.

    Report on 06 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • rabbie2
    Love rating 0
    rabbie2 said

    I agree with Jane,take advantage of the employers contribution. If you have any extra money to save, put it into ISAs.
    If you have anymore to save then go for a property, as their is no more land being made.
    After that look at the art world, or antiques. Spread your your money around wisely.
    All can be good investments over a long time period.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • DIYfixer
    Love rating 0
    DIYfixer said

    The other problem with employer pensions that no one seems to have touched on is how likely is Moresweety at the tender age of 24 to remain with their present employer. If like myself from the age of 24 you go on to have 9 different jobs, and I'm still a considerable way from retirement then all you have is a number of very small frozen pensions which are all but worthless. So in my opinion unless you plan to stay with your current employer for all or most of your carrier, stay away from these types of pensions.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • zazaz
    Love rating 0
    zazaz said

    I would also recommend you,take advantage of the employers contribution,but do not rely on a pension in the future as your only income.
    Anyone who has no savings ,will be well supported by the goverment.
    If you have your own pension,THE GOVERMENT OF THE DAY ,WILL TAX THIS,to pay for those who have nothing
    It is not rocket science ,to evaluate ,more people will be over retirement age,than under it ,as the average life expectancy,goes up,up.and even higher
    So exclude school children,students,sick,lame and lazy,company directors that can manipulate tax positions.
    You have everyone taking from the pot ,and no one wants to put into the pension pot,and hey presto,
    FINANCIAL DISASTER
    Remember this in 15 years time ,we are sat on a GLOBAL PROBLEM
    When the old age pension started ,everyone was paying in ,and very few were paid out.
    Life expectancy,was about 65 for a man or even lower.
    So you paid for a benefit,that you would never claim
    Things have changed
    Life expectancy
    Go to the pub,gamble,enjoy life ,and the goverment will support you.
    If you are prudent ,you will be thrown to the wolves.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • pdcovers
    Love rating 1
    pdcovers said

    As a person already retired on pension (from age 57 having been in an employer based pension or a personal pension for 39 years) but who now additionally pays into a stakeholder pension as well I may have a biased view.
    If a 24 year old with a job and an offer from her present employer to triple her (or his) pension investment does not take the offer then that person is either MAD or wants to live in government means tested poverty in old age.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • MikeGG1
    Love rating 879
    MikeGG1 said

    Look at the figures in my original response because it covers additional items of value to Moesweetly than Jane has included in her article.

    In those figure I showed that after the Tax-free Cash Sum that would be available was taken at retirement, Moesweetly would have contributed a net 50 pence for every £18 worth of pension. That has to be a good deal. On top of that there would probably be Life Assurance and many schemes also have pre-retirement spouse's pensions in the event of early death.

    Highlifeinspain seems to have had a bad experience probably because of a crash in values prior to retirement. This can be avoided by electing the 'lifestyle' option built into the investment options of most company or personal pension schemes (not included in my original response). He probably didn't have an employer contribution either.

    Company pension schemes also have an AVC facility, so that members can pay extra contributions which are not matched by additional employer contributions. There an £8 contribution after TFCS costs a net £5.50 for £7.50 worth of pension. At his age, I would use my ISA allowance first because of the extra flexibility it gives such as saving for a house deposit or as an emergency reserve for anything that might happen. The AVC should come back into consideration after the full ISA allowance has been used, especially close to retirement.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • fossilhunt
    Love rating 0
    fossilhunt said

    Moresweety, I think you should take up the offer of the free cash. Your employers scheme is generous and is most likely portable (ie not tied to that job).

    It's also worth noting that you should get tax relief on your contributions. For every £1 you put in you should get tax relief of 20p (if paying basic rate tax) or 40p if on a higher rate (but you will need to reclaim the additional 20p through your tax return). So for every £1 of contribution you will actually only pay 80p, while the company pays £2 and the Government pay 20p.

    If you afford the salary deduction then do it.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • hideaway301
    Love rating 0
    hideaway301 said

    Can anyone give me some advice or genuine help please. I am now 50 years of age, I was a Prison Officer for 10 years but got seriously assaulted by a very vicious prisoner and was made medically retired. I now receive a PENSION of £502.00 per month. I do not get any other income, so as you can imagine things are tight.I subsidised my pension with my own savings, but now the savings have all gone. I have been to the Job Centre, Tax office and C.A.B. asking for financial help but each of them state I am not entitled to any financial help except for council tax reduction.Needless to say this has caused a break down in marriage and now i am a divorced.If i was an ex soldier/forces etc there is support, but because I was a Prison officer there only support is my pension. Therefore i am asking is there anyone who can give me advice or help...Any suggestions would be grateful.....David.mcmahon@turboweb.org

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • miasmatic
    Love rating 0
    miasmatic said

    I wouldn't mind being 24 years old again Moresweety,because it's a great young age to plan your future.
    If I was in your position and could afford to pay 3%,I'd accept the company pension.Having done that I'd try and save as much as I could up to the maximum for an ISA each year.
    I am receiving my company pension,but will not collect my OAP for another year.
    Just think Moresweety,you too would receive your company pension,plus at 65 your OAP ,plus just look at what a cash ISA would be worth,which is completely tax free.
    I hope these comments are of help for you to decide,but I know one thing,I'd accept the pension with open arms.
    I wasn't even earning the average wage,but without being too drastic I saved in my company pension plus AVC,and still putting the max into a cash ISA each year.Now I'm reaping the benefits.It's a no-brainer.
    I went for a holiday in Canada for more than 3 weeks in the Summer.Took a couple of grand spending money.I didn't touch my main savings money,just money what I hadn't spent this year, and still plenty in my accounts.
    To do this I made my own rules.
    1.Don't do what your neighbours do (especially if they are always buying new cars.Your turn WILL come).
    2.Live a little.
    3.Save a little (the more the better).
    4.Only have ONE CREDIT CARD,and use it only when you have to,and pay it off fully each month you use it.
    5.Don't pay interest (unless it's for a mortgage which yuo can afford).Instead EARN INTEREST on your savings and have the pleasure of seeing it GROW.Interest rates will rise again,so in todays low interest situation KEEP SAVING no matter what.

    Using these rules my late wife and I were able to do many things and go on holidays without even touching our savings.She once said "I've never had so much money".
    The proof is in the pudding.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • SBJames
    Love rating 0
    SBJames said

    As said above:

    1. You’ll get tax relief so it is less than 3%
    2. Every quid you put in you get £3 in the pension
    3. If you are worried about shares at the moment (although long term now seems to be the ideal time to put money in) invest in a cash fund or something.
    4. If you move job, so what? You can transfer the pension elsewhere.
    5. With the best will in the world, debt repayment is the way to go... but let’s be real, putting some money away, at 3% of salary (actually 2.4% net or 1.8% if you are a higher rate payer) and getting 9% seems to be a rather good deal. You'd need to be having stupidly high interest rates on your debts to not do it – and be very disciplined and ensure that every penny went on debt repayment.
    6. If you do have stupidly high interest rates on your debts, get a personal loan to clear them and have one easy monthly repayment - or do the Foolish thing and balance transfer etc ONLY IF you can trust yourself.

    The non-financial adviser advice, from a fellow 24 (okay 25 but hardly a big difference!) year old, is bite their hand off, and ask them if you put in 6% will they give you 12% :-)

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Rangeroverer
    Love rating 0
    Rangeroverer said

    Hi

    No one, as far as I can see, has asked the most important question, is it a final salery or money purchase type scheme? If its final salary grab it quick as this type of scheme does NOT depend on stock market performance but gives a guaranteed fraction of your final years salery ie if you worked 40 years it could be 40/60's or 40 /80's
    These are the schemes that councils and Civil servants have. Money purchase schemes are stock market invested you pay in and get what ever it has grown to. People retireing now with this type of schene has seen their pensions fall as a result of the market.

    Hope this helps.

    John

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • SBJames
    Love rating 0
    SBJames said

    It would make sense for it to be a money purchase scheme, otherwise the employer wouldn't specify their contribution rate, they would just require a certain contribution (from 0% upwards) from the employee.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • MikeGG1
    Love rating 879
    MikeGG1 said

    Rangeroverer - as SBJames says it has to be a Money Purchase Scheme (otherwise known as a Defined Contribution Scheme). As for the pension fall you mention, that would not have happened if they had gone for the 'Lifestyle' option as I mentioned earlier. In case anyone doesn't know what it is, it is a gradual switch from long-term equity investment to Cash & Bonds over the last 5-10 years, in order to avoid the sudden changes in equity values to which you refer. The end ratio is normally 25% cash to fund the Tax-free Cash Sum and 75% bonds because annuity rates are based on gilts & bond yields.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Rangeroverer
    Love rating 0
    Rangeroverer said

    Hi

    Many Final salery schemes specify a contribution rate.
    The best advice is for her to see an IFA experianced with company schemes.
    These forums are great for opinions and life experiances of others but advice is given without knowing the full details, and often by people not qualified to give it, even with the best of intentions.
    I,m an ex IFA with over 20 years but my pension knowledge is 6 years out of date.

    The best advice is Go see an IFA.

    Hi Mike

    you are correct, it's a good option, and although I have 4 years before my pension is due I switched my pension to a deposit fund in Jan and seeing the writing on the wall even cashed in my investments peps & ISA's and spread it around the various banks & Building SocietiesMade one error in putting a big lump in Icesave but have now got that back, big sigh of relief.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • SBJames
    Love rating 0
    SBJames said

    Rangeroverer - It all sort of depends on whether the advice is free... if you don't have a clue about pensions then it is probably worth paying. If you know what you are talking about then to be quite frank with a bit of research and reading the small print, with an excel spreadsheet or two you could have yourself a small fortune.

    I don't know many final salary schemes that specify an employER contribution rate, but as I said they all have an employEE rate, albeit in the good old days of 0%.

    Regarding not knowing the full details and not qualified I'd agree... but the disclaimer "The non-financial adviser advice...." would probably cover that :-)

    Cheers

    SBJames.

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • TheDemocrat
    Love rating 0
    TheDemocrat said

    hideaway301 - the advice you have received is mostly correct. All means tested benefits do take occupational pensions into account. It will depend on your circumstances and the relevant income tax years paid whether you are entitled to Jobseekers' Allowance Contribution Based. In any event this would only pay for a maximum of 6 months and then would be means tested with a claim for Income Based nil rated.

    If you have been disabled by your unfortunate attack and are not fit for work the new Employment & Support Allowance criteria would be the same.

    However, Disability Living Allowance (DLA)is not means tested. If you think this could apply to you, pick up a leaflet from a Jobcentre or go on to their website: www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk.The Direct Gov website is also worth looking at.

    Good luck!

    Report on 07 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • TheDemocrat
    Love rating 0
    TheDemocrat said

    The problem with pensions is that none of us can foresee the future. When I started work in the 1960s, endowments and with profits funds were secure and trustworthy investments from reputable companies, some of whom had been trading for hundreds of years. Big Bang, corporate and government greed and globalisation have torn up the old rules. Who knows what 40 years on will be like?

    At the moment government rewards a single person who has been an economic inactive all their working life with pension credit of 124 pounds per week. Or contribute 49 years of NI and they'll give you 90 pounds per week. What is more if you're in receipt of pension credit, the state will throw in rent and maintenance of your property and pay the council tax as well.

    This morally repugnant state of affairs cannot last, so my advice for any youngster is: don't rely on government handouts when you're old - make your own arrangements. Having said that, the vehicle you chose must be understandable and managed. Don't forget about your future - plan for it and make it happen. Think about self reliance, try and get yourself a carbon neutral home and stay there. Invest is self generating heat, light, water and energy and learn to grow your own veg. You might then survive. Bleak yes, but I believe realistic.

    Report on 08 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • unlife
    Love rating 0
    unlife said

    I wouldn't worry - by the time you hit retirement age in 40+ years, the City of London will be underwater once or twice a year and half of East Anglia will have fallen into the North Sea ... the long term investment of choice surely has to be dried pulses and grains, small arms and a plot of land? ;-)

    Report on 08 December 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

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