Budget bashes pensioners

Ed Bowsher
by Lovemoney Staff Ed Bowsher on 21 March 2012  |  Comments 45 comments

Pensioners are the biggest losers from George Osborne's latest budget.

Budget bashes pensioners

George Osborne said in his Budget speech that "no pensioner will lose in cash terms" from today’s proposed changes to income tax.

Strictly speaking, that’s correct. If a pensioner’s income is unchanged, he won’t have to pay any more income tax. But once you take inflation into account, pensioners will lose out. In fact, pensioners are the biggest losers from the budget.

Income tax

Under current rules, pensioners don’t pay any tax on income up to £10,500 a year. That’s a higher allowance than for younger folk, but the bad news for pensioners is that the allowance is now going to be frozen. So as prices rise, the real value of the allowance for pensioners will fall.

Indeed the Government thinks that this freeze will boost revenue by £360 million in the year to April 2013, rising to £1.25 billion in 2016. That’s a healthy boost to revenue which will help pay for the Government’s Corporation Tax cut.

I suspect this is going to be the issue that will really annoy people over the next few weeks. There’s already a fair bit of fuss on Twitter. Check out the #GrannyTax hashtag.

State pension age

And the Government isn’t just hurting current pensioners, today’s budget will also hurt people who retire in the future. That’s because the state pension age is set to go up.

It’s true that future increases to the pension age have been announced in previous budgets, but today’s news is that the Government wants to introduce an automatic review of the pension age.

In other words, if average UK life expectancy rises, the state pension age will go up in line with that increase. As a result, people who are 33 now may not be able to retire until they reach 73, according to Andrew Tully of MGM Advantage.

Pushing up the pension age in line with life expectancy may sound reasonable but it ignores the fact that life expectancy for poorer folk may not rise as fast.

What’s more, even if life expectancy does rise uniformly across the population, that doesn’t mean that manual workers will be physically able to carry on doing their jobs until they reach 73.

I think you can make a decent case that increases in the pension age discriminate against poorer pensioners.

Universal pension

The other big change is that the Government plans to introduce a ‘universal pension’ in 2015, which will apply to anyone who retires from that date onwards.

The State Second Pension (S2P) will be abolished and all new pensioners will receive a state pension of £140 a week at today’s prices. That’s as long as the pensioner has paid National Insurance for at least 30 years.

The big advantage of the Universal Pension is that it won’t discourage saving. It doesn’t matter how much money you have in the bank, you’ll still get £140 a week. It will also makes things simpler.

So, in principle, I’m in favour. However, the devil will be in the detail, and it’s possible that some pensioners with a State Second Pension may end up with a lower income. I’ll keep a watching brief on this issue.

Anyway, even if the universal pension does prove to be good news for all future retirees, you can’t say that this Budget has been good news overall for pensioners. That’s a shame.

Postscript: I should have said that I was pleased to see that the Chancellor hasn't made any changes to higher rate tax relief for pension saving. Maybe he was persuaded by my article: Tax raid could cut your pension by £3000 a year. Or maybe not.

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Comments (45)

  • bohemianlady
    Love rating 7
    bohemianlady said

    Well done Ed, didn't you predict something like this in an article in February?

    BL

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    "[...]you can’t say that this Budget has been good news overall for pensioners. That’s a shame."

    I can't say I completely agree.

    I'd certainly say that the pre-WWII generation should be protected as they have been net givers to this country over their lifetimes. But those that followed them have left us with massive debts, a screwed up economy and allowed major social problems to both form and fester. Why should we pay them extra after all that they have done (or not)?

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Farab
    Love rating 24
    Farab said

    Something that doesn't seem to get mentioned are the people who decided not to contract out of S2P. They were obviously supporting the government, in the hope that they would get a S2P. Also, and possibly the worst, they could have had the government pay thousands into their personal pension if they were contracted out.

    I'm glad to say I've always been contracted out and now happy in the knowledge that the contracted out money is 'safe' in my personal pension fund for me to do with what I feel best.

    Just goes to show you can't trust the government and if you've got the opportunity to look after your money yourself instead of the government, then do so.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • fenemore
    Love rating 205
    fenemore said

    I AM retired, yet I don't see ANY of that increased in personal allowance for pensioners! The reason, if you have done the RIGHT thing all your life, saved, paid huge amounts into your pension fund - then for every £2 of pension you receive above £24k a year, the government trims £1 off of your personal allowance.

    So even though I have done EVERTHING possible to plan for my retirement, my additional personal allowance (for being over 65) has been completely eliminated. My tax allowance is the same as if hadn't retired.

    If I had done NO planning, spent it all - I would have received everything - and probably more given the whole host of benefits available. Why did I bother?

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  6 loves
  • yocoxy
    Love rating 132
    yocoxy said

    How does a pensioner's "loss" compare to a a household with 4 children and one earner with a gross salary of £60K?

    The new tax threshold helps but most is taken away for high rate taxpayers by lowering the threshold and anyone on £60K loses all of their child benefit. I think that contradicts your assertion that "pensioners are the biggest losers".

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • classicalcat
    Love rating 1
    classicalcat said

    "Under current rules, pensioners don’t pay any tax on income up to £10,500 a year". I would comment that that is only pensioners over the age of 65 as from April this year. I am 63 years old and my combined state pension and private pension will amount to just over £10,000 pa from next month. My personal allowance will be £8,105 leaving just over £2,000 of taxable income. At 20% tax, that is roughly £8 per week I will be paying. Even if I didn't receive a small private pension, I would still be paying tax on my enhanced state pension on the basis of a personal allowance of £8,105.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • Chimpipi
    Love rating 3
    Chimpipi said

    To quote Paxman (Daily Mail 31st october 2011) - I think the Baby Boomers are the most selfish generation ever, go figure...they are getting what they trully deserve now.

    "The Luckiest Generation will be around for a long while yet, strumming their guitars and enjoying their concessionary fares, ensuring young people keep working to pay their pensions, outraged at demands they cash in their property wealth to fund their future in care homes, consuming the vast — and increasing — quantities of National Health Service funds necessary for geriatric medication (half the NHS budget is spent caring for old people).

    They have already persuaded the Government to make it impossible for employers to get rid of them just because they reach the age of 65, while also ensuring that many Boomers will be able to claim their pension two or three years earlier than anyone entering the workforce now.

    Getting on for a million of this generation have taken themselves off to live in parts of continental Europe where they think the weather is kinder and the fags and booze are cheaper.

    In southern Spain or rural France they watch Sky television, demand the assistance of British consuls paid for by their hard-working offspring and are begged by the big parties to register for postal votes.

    Thousands more enjoy a healthier old age than they had any right to expect jetting around the world on holidays of one sort or another.

    You can hardly blame them for thinking the world belongs to them. It really does.

    Their children and grandchildren, meanwhile, have been sent out into a plundered world, shackled by debt, unable to contemplate early home ownership or starting a family.

    And then the Luckiest Generation tut at the level of anti-social behaviour they claim to see.

    It strikes me as more of a wonder the streets aren’t full of demonstrators demanding compulsory euthanasia."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055497/JEREMY-PAXMAN-Baby-Boomers-selfish-generation-history.html#ixzz1pqr0zDRb

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • iainso
    Love rating 1
    iainso said

    Well, families and working people have been the ones that have suffered the most from the cuts (cuts to tax credits, pay freezes), while pensioners on the contrary have got their link to the higher of earnings, inflation, or 2.5%, and kept their non-means tested benefits such as winter fuel allowance. It was only a matter of time before they would be impacted, and honestly I think it's only fair that they share the burden

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • JRAY100
    Love rating 50
    JRAY100 said

    In a storm, just be pleased that you survive... we have been through a dreadful financial storm... we are witnessing the devastation of the aftermath of the storm... let's just come out of the other end... I might point out that many pensioners have gained considerably through purchasing their properties.

    I (still working with the state pension deferred) spend about £7000 a year to manage... which matches the proposed £140 p.w... which is less than the proposed £9205 p.a tax free allowance.

    Remember the state pension scheme is really a Ponzi scheme where the pensions are funded by the next generation... so expect it to struggle indefinitely... if the ordinary person designed the scheme then they would have it as an investment based scheme.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • fabuloushornet
    Love rating 5
    fabuloushornet said

    next month i collect my civil service pension after 27 years (no its not a fantastic amount as the government want you all to think )I will get 5,000 a year , add to that my state pension in 2 years time ,it will never reach 10,000 so if most civil servants on my level get what i get , then the threshold on tax wont effect us at all, just the richer pensioners .

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • fabuloushornet
    Love rating 5
    fabuloushornet said

    I will have to sell my house when i recieve the state pension as wont be able to pay it off in time as my earnings have been so low and then let go last year from my civil service job without redundancy money . Most pensioners are not rich aand have worked all their lives for the little they have or will recieved , I have worked since I was 15 , through pregnancy with only two weeks off to deliver then back to work ,until last year I had never been unemployed .so the fact that the prime minister said the workers will be rewarded seems to come a little to late for us and I believe the workers of the future will be no better off .things dont change really do they , just get re shuffled.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • tsykes
    Love rating 6
    tsykes said

    No-one likes to pay more but reducing the deficit and paying back the debt will only work if everyone pays their share. Up to now all the tax increases/benefit cuts have been targetting families (child benefit, tax credits etc.). Pensioners (even the millionaires) still get a winter fuel allowance, I think freezing the tax allowance is a small contribution - look at the proportion of the countries wealth that is in the hands of the over 50s...

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • polyphemus
    Love rating 8
    polyphemus said

    This is pretty mean. There's not much pensioners can do to increase their income - they can't work harder, get promoted, or cut their costs very easily. If they are sensible savers who try to stand on their own feet and off benefits, they have been clobbered by near-zero interest rates and the de facto policy of letting inflation rip.

    Bad show, and has a smell of the poll tax about it. Rile the pensioners at your peril.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  4 loves
  • macworm
    Love rating 6
    macworm said

    Poly is right this is 'granny tax' misguided and will alienate more pensioners that it affects - pensioners have limited scope to replace lost income and many have planned for years for their retirement. The additional personal allowance is limited by the fact that once a pensioners income exceeds a certain level then the allowance is clawed back at a rate of(I believe) 50p per pound giving them an effective tax rate of 70%! Therefor the very well off pensioner gets no benefit from this tax break and it is only those middle income pensioners, many of whom had saved frugally throughout their working lives who are affected. Add this to the fact that the policy of quantitative easing and low interest rates has hit many of these pensioners as they have seen interest on their savings decimated and are not able to risk putting capital it other assets as they cannot replace it if it is lost. Then there are those approaching retirement who are hit even harder as not only will they be affected by all the above issues but they will have seen the value of the annuities they are offered substantially reduced as a result of current policies. In my view there where other ways to save money without doing this such as limiting tax relief on pension contributions to the basic rate and removing winter fuel allowances and free TV licensees from those who do not need them. I have deliberately excluded free bus passes as I believe these can be of benefit as the encourage pensioners to give up their car and by using the services outside peak times pensioner journeys can help some services remain viable.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • londonschild
    Love rating 8
    londonschild said

    I have a feeling they will regret this the Guardian headline says it all 'Pensioners fund tax cut'. Even more interesting the Telegraph has a similar line. The impression from the commentators is that the government are surprised at all the fuss which gives the out of touch accusation even more force. The grey vote is crucial we vote and we know how to make our vote count. Possibly the most annoying part is the chancellors opinion that he is doing us a favour cos we cant get our little grey heads around the complexities of taxation well we saw off Gordon and can do the same for George and Dave.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • Zigmar
    Love rating 1
    Zigmar said

    Pension Credit Rates - As from April 2012 to April 2013

    Are my Facts & Figures correct !!!

    If a married couple (who have never worked) but qualify for Guaranteed Pension Credit , have £10.000 in the bank will receive the New Rate of £217.90 per week + Full Rent & Council Tax Allowance, Winter Fuel Allowance, Bus Passes, Free Dental, Free Medical Prescriptions etc, as a basic right ... TAX FREE !!!

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • jillhazel
    Love rating 3
    jillhazel said

    we pensioners always seem to be the ones to pay, it is impossible to get a decent return on any money we have managed to save. I agree the grey vote is crucial, and I know who I will not be voting for in the future. We pay all the inflated prices for several months before the pension increase referring to those increases kicks in, then we are treated as idiots because the chancellor expects us to believe he is simplifying the tax system, really!!!

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • Meanmachine2
    Love rating 37
    Meanmachine2 said

    Who's surprised at all this?

    The Conservatives are simply running true to form.

    Ever since Maggie they have been the party who's number one objective is to turn public assets into private profit (they now want to sell the roads) & to help the rich get richer.

    They are probably really brassed off that pensions went up by 5.2% this year owing to the high CPI last September. I'm going to get just over £5 a week more. Wow!

    They also seem to miss the point that people who were paying 50p in the pound tax will still apply just as much skill avoiding the 45p.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • Ed Bowsher
    Love rating 79
    Ed Bowsher said

    Thanks everyone for your comments. An interesting debate.

    In Osborne's defence, the poorest pensioners won't be affected by yesterday's changes as their income is lower than £10,500 a year, so that's a point I probably should have made in the article.

    Osborne might also argue that the truly lucky generation aren't current pensioners but people who are in the 45 to 65 bracket. I wrote about this in this article:

    http://www.lovemoney.com/news/the-economy-politics-and-your-job/the-economy/10984/its-financial-war

    That said, you've got to remember that a lot of pensioners have been hit by the unusually low rates on savings accounts in recent years. So it's not as if they've lived through the recession completely unscathed. So overall, I think it's probably wrong that they should suffer more.

    But the thing that really sticks in my craw is the way that Osborne tried to skate over this change in his budget speech. It's a shame that he feels the need to copy one of Gordon Brown's least attractive characteristics.

    Ed

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • johnmxn3
    Love rating 17
    johnmxn3 said

    I think Osborne has decided the result of the next election by this attack onpensioners. We have long memories Mr Osborne, and statistically the largest group of voters are pensioners who take their electoral responsibilites seriously.

    However the sad thing in this are the comments on other sites such as "I am glad the whingeing pensioners have to pay more tax, I work hard and get taxed, why shouldn't they". Well, I agree with FAIR taxation, but writers of that ilk should remember who paid tax and rates/council taxes and NI contributions so that they could go to free schools, have free medical care up to 16 years age, and that their mothers probably had them in NHS hospitals free of charge because we all contributed to the pot.

    And don't bang on about free bus passes, we don't have a bus where I live. Plus it costs me as much to drive my car as the young generation, and to heat my home.

    Finally the govt says old people should turn up the heat in their homes to avoid dying from the cold. Hah! Who pays for that? My annual pocket money of a grant for heating does not cover a fraction of my costs.

    Why did I work for 53 years and save money for old age? I could have saved nothing, have nothing, and get the benefit of low or no council tax, pension credits etc etc.

    yes Mr Osborne, we will remember this budget. You have betrayed the workers of past generations.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • jedi44
    Love rating 31
    jedi44 said

    As a recent pensioner I have been reading these comments with interest (not the type I expected to make on my savings over the decades).

    yocoxy

    "How does a pensioner's "loss" compare to a a household with 4 children and one earner with a gross salary of £60K?"

    You make it sound as if £60K is a meager wage. I worked from age 17 to retirement, with a few months out of work after being made redundant at 52. In all that time my pay never topped £30K and I considered myself well-off, as would most people I expect. At £60K there should be no complaints and if loss of child allowance is a hardship, maybe fewer children would have solved that one.

    Chimpipi

    "To quote Paxman (Daily Mail 31st october 2011) - I think the Baby Boomers are the most selfish generation ever".

    I'm afraid that I can't agree with this at all. Most so-called baby-boomers merely claim what is rightly their's, fought hard for by their parents. The younger generation who call this selfish should stop whining, get over the "me" attitude and do some fighting for their own rights.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • OorWullie
    Love rating 38
    OorWullie said

    It is not only with this Tory government that pensioners are being exploited, Margaret Thatcher's government in 1982 interfered with the indexation linkage and introduced an annual depreciation value to all pensions and State benefits which has brought into effect today's situation and created the underclass in society. 'President' Tony Blair chose not to rectify this anomaly and still, today, rather than pensions and State benefits maintaining their original value the depreciation over the past 30 years has been enormous yet little mention has been made of this impact. Few of today's generation (and especially the Baby Boomers) seem aware that pensioners and those on State benefit have been and are being financially mugged. When the Government more recently created new money (out of nowhere) by printing more, the effect was to devalue today's currency which is blamed, inappropriately, on the rising cost of living. The Chancellor likes to refer to this as creative accounting. With the Tories in power it will always be the workers who are pilloried, never doubt this little Middle England!

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • Meldrew
    Love rating 2
    Meldrew said

    It is deja vu time. George Osborne has done a Gordon Brown.

    Gordon said that no one would lose out when he abolished the 10p tax band because everyone who might be, would be protected by their benefits. That turned out to be everyone except me and my wife and around 5 million others aged between 60 and 65 because we weren't entitled to benefits. So we lost out by about £500 and we were still out of pocket along with 1.3 million other people after he was forced to make his reluctant and half hearted partial recompense.

    George is now saying more or less the same except this time the amount that I will lose out by will be at least £65 a year for life and could be a lot more.

    It is obvious that George Osborne has nothing but contempt for the intelligence of the British people and believes we will swallow any lie just as his predecesor did.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • bobmattfran
    Love rating 58
    bobmattfran said

    Young people seem to conveniently forget that old people here once young. I paid for my parents state pension through my taxes and national insurance, because the system relied upon the generation in work to provide for those that had retired or were n earing retirement.

    Young people are far more selfish today and expect everything to be available to them now! They put their parents in retirement homes because they are not willing to look after them, they are quite happy when the parents eventually die and leave them the residue of their estate, bu are not prepared to put themselves out for their elderly parents.

    They then bleat about the cost of living and how it is difficult to bring up children on low salaries. Perhaps the answer lies in their own hands, only bring children into the world if you can afford the cost. These same bleating young people would not dream of saving to for holidays, new kitchens, new cars or new TV 's, they would rather go into debt and then moan about how hard life is.

    Time I think for them to get life in to perspective, stop being so selfish, if you have a job with the present government in power you are lucky, so stop knocking pensioners, those who have been put out of work due to failed government policies, or those who are genuinely sick. You never know, sickness or unemployment could strike you next, and then you also will learn a lesson in life.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  3 loves
  • Piers Bourne
    Love rating 0
    Piers Bourne said

    As usual with many proposals from the government there is a great deal of dangerously simplistic generalisation, mild hysteria and misinformation pouring forth.

    I am aged 65 with both an occupational and state pension. I never qualified for the higher personal allowance because my pension already exceeds the income limit for age-related allowances, which is set at £24,000. Therefore my personal allowance remains the same as all the younger salary and wage earning people. However I do receive heating allowance, bus pass, free prescriptions and free eye tests, though I could afford to do without any of these. These, tax free, benefits could be worth in the region of £1500+ p.a.

    According to the BBC Budget Calculator my household (wife: employed 15 hours p.w. plus small occupational pension, and self) will be over £400 better off in 2012/13 than in 2011/12. Thank you very much.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Piers Bourne
    Love rating 0
    Piers Bourne said

    I believe it was Gordon Brown who raided occupational pension returns to the tune of Five Billion pounds.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Fotheringay
    Love rating 0
    Fotheringay said

    Surely parents with children who have an earner > £60K are the worst hit ? The full child allowance disappears. The age allowance argument is insignificant in comparison - why all the focus ?

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • macworm
    Love rating 6
    macworm said

    Personally I believe child benefit should be abolished, the original aim of the benefit was to provide some income for the mothers who were not working. This is no longer the case, the benefit is not needed by many families and those that do need it should receive it as part of their means tested benefit and tax credits

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  4 loves
  • RayR22
    Love rating 3
    RayR22 said

    I also turned 65 this year and gained my State pension, so the article was of some interest to me.

    However, concentrating only on the impact of this budget on pensioners, I am at a loss to see how we will be bashed, Ed.

    If I have got it right, this budget will freeze the Age Related Allowance (ARA) in April 2013 at £10,500 - this will mean a loss of the annual inflationary increase for that year. So for individual pensioners with an income of between about £10,500 and about £24,000 they will pay a maximum of £84 extra for that tax year (assuming an inflation rate of 4%) which they wouldn't have paid if the Allowance had been increased by inflation.

    Yes, £84 pa or £1.61 pw. Not exactly a bash, perhaps a slap for some or a prod for others, eh.

    Of course the freeze is likely to be for one year only as the Basic Personal Allowance is likely to catch up with with the ARA in April 2014 when they will merge into a unified Allowance.

    I've probably missed or misunderstood something in my reading of the budget but I'm sure it'll be pointed out.

    Report on 22 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Ginnymay
    Love rating 36
    Ginnymay said

    What's not been mentioned in all of this, is the percentage effect; that a drop of 5% in income tax for someone who is earning £750,000 per annum, for example, will yield him considerably more cash (assuming his accountant does not find wriggle room around his paying income tax at all, such as living abroad or calling himself a corporation and paying 20% corporation tax) than raising the tax threshold will for someone at the bottom end. 5 % of £700K is £35,000, if my arithmetic is correct, ie such a person is going to be SAVING 3 and a half times the threshold for income tax of someone at the lower end of the spectrum. And there are a heck of a lot more people at the lower end of things than ones earning £750K (remember Fred Goodwin's pension?), so the govt is going to be cumulatively pocketing much more cash from the small tax payments from the lower paid than it will have to lose from the higher paid people. However, individually, guess who will hurt most?

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • matchmade
    Love rating 38
    matchmade said

    t's utterly ludicrous for pensioners to claim they are "worse off". All this moaning about the loss of the extra personal allowance for some of them - which is basically an exercise in tax simplification and to be welcomed (why should pensioners get this extra allowance anyway?) - completely ignores the generous planned increases in the pension to £140 per week and the restoration of the link of pensions to earnings. The earnings link alone is something that people have been campaigning about for years, but all the carpers and moaners about "Tory cuts" conveniently forget about this. Certainly the Labour party wasn't increasing pensions to £140 a week or restoring the earning link when it was busy bankrupting the country!

    No doubt the pensioners will then start moaning if wages increase less quickly than inflation, which is what the vast majority of working people are experiencing right now and accepting real income cuts. But that's the privilege of being a pensioner: you've nothing to do all day but sit on your final-salary pension and your capital gains from your houses and free perks like MIRAS mortgage relief (now abolished), complain about the good old days, and maximise your claims for free "entitlements". The evidence show definitively that pensioners have been cushioned much more from the effects of the recession than other income groups, but who wants to let evidence get in the way of airing one's prejudices?

    The facts show that this Budget was good for low earners and poorer pensioners, and I have no problem with taxing rich pensioners receiving more than about £15-20K a year: who needs that amount of money to live off once one's mortgage is paid off and you've no commuting costs, children to pay for, or extra savings or pension contributions to make? But the fact is this Budget most definitely does *not* "bash pensioners", especially when you take into account the generous planned increases to the basic state pension.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  2 loves
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    @jillhazel

    "we pensioners always seem to be the ones to pay"

    Like when you got your winter fuel allowance or when the state pension system was modified with the triple lock (it's raised each year by the highest of: average wage increase, RPI inflation or if neither of those are high enough, some minimum amount (I forget how much))?

    @nmachine2

    "The Conservatives are simply running true to form.

    Ever since Maggie they have been the party who's number one objective is to turn public assets into private profit (they now want to sell the roads) & to help the rich get richer."

    Absolutely.

    @Ed Bowsher said

    "Osborne might also argue that the truly lucky generation aren't current pensioners but people who are in the 45 to 65 bracket."

    In other words core of the Baby Boomer generation? Well what a surprise.

    "That said, you've got to remember that a lot of pensioners have been hit by the unusually low rates on savings accounts in recent years."

    And a lot, well actually almost all of those pensioners are at least in significant part responsible for this mess. In other words they're paying for their own greed and mistakes.

    @johnmxn3 said

    "Well, I agree with FAIR taxation, but writers of that ilk should remember who paid tax and rates/council taxes and NI contributions so that they could go to free schools, have free medical care up to 16 years age, and that their mothers probably had them in NHS hospitals free of charge because we all contributed to the pot."

    All the things you have mentioned go into enabling the next generation able to pay for your retirement.

    But wait! My generation can now get no free university education (unlike what was afforded to you)! A crumbling social infrastructure! Massive youth unemployment! Astronomical state debt! A broken economy based largely on employing more and more public sector workers on low wages while at the same time promising them that my generation will pay for their retirement!

    The “pot” is empty, having been used to pay your parents for what you received. Now you want me to pay not only for your retirement but also your debts?

    @jedi44 said

    "Most so-called baby-boomers merely claim what is rightly their's, fought hard for by their parents.

    Given the context in which you say those words, the irony of that statement appears to have been lost on you.

    I've argued for years now that the Baby Boomers, unlike the generation the preceded them, consumed everything that they inherited. After all that was gone they then started running up debts safe in the knowledge that when these debts come due, the Boomers will have largely retired and their children will inherit the problem.

    "The younger generation who call this selfish should stop whining, get over the "me" attitude and do some fighting for their own rights."

    Many countries around the world are now experiencing what has been called a "brain drain": those of the younger generation having worked and studied hard are leaving, moving to countries not burdened by the legacy of their parents' structural debt, not forced to drag the weight of a selfish and almost entirely unfunded retiring generation around with them and free from the legacy of social and economic decay that those that they leave behind will have to deal with.

    Is this what you mean? Because if so, I welcome it.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • lazban
    Love rating 5
    lazban said

    I am surprised that MATCHMADE didn't go the whole way and suggest that 'the same old Tories' didn't legalise enforced euthanasia when people reach 65.

    The £5.40 increase this year is in line with CPI (not even RPI) and pensioners would have now be getting much more than the proposed £107 if Maggie had not stopped the link with wages many years ago.

    All pensioners will not get £140 when it come in, only those that get to OAP after the introduction. My wife (dob late April 1948) lost out when the number of NIC years for full OAP was reduced from 39 to 30 years a few years ago and will now loose out again when she doesn't get the £10500 allowance next April.

    Osbourne (and Cameron) have to realise that it was the pensioners who put them into power and the pensioners should remember what they have done to them at the next general election.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • jedi44
    Love rating 31
    jedi44 said

    @LandOfConfusion

    I wish people wouldn't brand an entire generation, as many posts here do when they talk of Baby Boomers. I was born in 1950, now 62, so I presume I am in that category.

    I would really like to Know what I have "consumed" and what "debt" I have run up. I worked all my life, the only benefit I ever claimed was job seekers allowance for a few months when I was made redundant at 52. It's as hard to find a new job at that age as it is for school-leavers. As for debt, I admit that I owed a few thousand on a personal credit card to furnish the first home I bought, after saving till I was 36.

    The comments I made in my earlier posts were referring to those in need, rather than myself. There are a vast number of baby-boomers on very low incomes as well as those as lucky as me.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    @ jedi44

    "I would really like to Know what I have "consumed" and what "debt" I have run up."

    Those that lived though WWII did two very honourable things: firstly they fought a war so that we might be free of tyranny and secondly they left this country in a comparatively good state, both financially and in terms of infrastructure.

    But if we fast forward to today then we find that much of the infrastructure has been sold off and the money from the post-war boom years has all been spent.

    In fact the mass privatisation of state assets and the selling of vital infrastructure generated a lot of money and yet this country now stands not just with crippling debts but with a massive structural deficit. So my question is: where's the money gone? Most of my generation wasn't even alive when this happened, yet alone able to have a say in where it was spent or even that it should happen at all. Yet despite this we're being told that we have to pay.

    The leading edge of the Boomer generation is now reaching the end of their working lives. Those who worked in the public sector now expect to get (from the perspective of a private sector employee) gold-plated pensions. But these are unfunded. The Boomer generation, having promised them good pensions in return for lower wages failed to save any money for when it would be needed.

    And as for those who worked in the private sector, they now expect to get a generous state pension from a country who's finances they ruined and assets they've stripped.

    So in answer to your question I would say this: all that was given and much of what will come.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Meanmachine2
    Love rating 37
    Meanmachine2 said

    I have the feeling that the so called Granny Tax will have shot the Conservatives in the foot.

    Despite all the other items in the budget, like the hike on cigarettes & fuel tax hike later, virtually the sole topic in all the media is the pensioners. It is the principle of the thing more than the actual effect & the fact it was slipped in.

    I think for what he has gained financially it is going to cost them very dear in the future.

    I can just see the headlines at the next election like "The Granny Muggers"

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • jedi44
    Love rating 31
    jedi44 said

    @LandOfConfusion

    I do understand what you are saying but still don't believe that a whole generation can be blamed for the state the country is in.

    I am, and always have been, against the selling off of our utilites, transport system and council housing stock. These were all sold off at pittance prices, being snapped up by the greediest sections of the generation. This is still going on, with ex-council houses being sold on by buyers for vast profits and the current government selling what is left.

    I suppose that the generation is to blame because more greedy people voted in the governments that did the damage than voted as I did.

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    "@jedi44

    "I do understand what you are saying but still don't believe that a whole generation can be blamed for the state the country is in."

    Taken as a whole, that generation is to blame. They made the decisions and they took the rewards.

    "I suppose that the generation is to blame because more greedy people voted in the governments that did the damage than voted as I did."

    Sir it would seem that you are one of only a few.

    On a final note I remember a philosopher who once said something along the lines of:

    "A democracy can not work because as soon as the people realise that they have power they will reward themselves with ever greater gifts, until ruin."

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Offa
    Love rating 40
    Offa said

    It is three years until we get to show Osborne our ( as pensioners) opinion on his Pensioner Punishing. He has been at it before. Do not forget that CPI does not in any way reflect the actual inflation borne by pensioners. It is way below and he has the bare faced cheek to say that pensionsers are having the biggest increase ever! What a nerve. This is because his sheer incompetance at mis-managing inflation through printing money. I hate and loathe Cameron and Osborne and the Liberlas who cling to a pathetic vistage of power whilst keeping millionaires in champagne.

    The only sad fact is that Labour are still a party of capitalist pigs too. Where is a proper Labour party that Kier Hardie would recgonise?

    Report on 23 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • teafoo
    Love rating 47
    teafoo said

    > Offa

    ".. sheer incompetence ..." for that you really need only look back to 'Prudence' Brown who did more single-handedly to destroy this country and its economy than most Labour Chancellors all put together.

    ***

    Highly provocative headline too --- stop and think .. too much Nimby-ism all round.

    Report on 24 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    @Offa

    "Do not forget that CPI does not in any way reflect the actual inflation borne by pensioners."

    "party of capitalist pigs"

    Young, dumb and living off the state? Oh I'm sorry, you're not young.

    One of the "triple locks" that Osbourne brought in was to change the link between the state pension and CPI to the usually higher RPI. But then if you'd bothered to read the previous comments here then you'd known that.

    Report on 24 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Ed Bowsher
    Love rating 79
    Ed Bowsher said

    Hi,

    I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple of days, and I've come to the conclusion that maybe the change to income tax allowance for pensioners isn't as bad as I originally thought. As several posters have said, we shouldn't forget that pensioners are benefitting from the triple lock at the moment.

    That said, I still think that the 'automatic review' of the retirement age is potentially very damaging for the reasons I outlined in the piece.

    Ed

    In defence of my headline, I wasn't just referring to the change to income tax allowances, I was also referring to the 'automatic review' of the retirement age that has been announced. In fact, I think that's the muc

    Report on 24 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • coloratura
    Love rating 61
    coloratura said

    I have worked for 46 years and I am now to have my pension decreased because with the money that my late husband paid into the pot, which will be deemed a second pension, the £140 will be a decrease for me. I am also still working but when then new tax threshold comes in it will no longer make it worth my while working (and I run my own business so so much for encouraging enterprise and growth). Also if people retire at a much greater age (rises from 60 for women to 70 plus) before they get their pensions it won't be worth the youngsters working in the first place if all they can look forward to is a long life of work and drudgery and then to retire just in time to live with alzheimers or be put on a life support machine. However, with all the new tax breaks that the ministers and politicians will get on their enormous salaries (£50,000 less for every £1,000,000 roughly) I am sure that they will be able to afford to retire when they want to . I and many others could live for 2/3 years on that £50,000 alone. When they retire they will still have their directorships or silent partners positions to keep them going.

    With regards to having to the old horsechesnut of "paying to keep talent" then I have seen much talent in ordinary people so let them go elsewhere I say. Still, what can we expect from a load of people who think nothing of fiddling their parliamentary expenses (no, we haven't forgot that either). Their game is to divide and rule. Cut jobs for the many so they are grateful for anything and take from the old whilst giving handouts to those still in work (via the tax rise) and to the very weathly, just so they keep people to vote for them. So much for the "caring Conservative" party. By the way, I am a card carrying Consevative member but just an old, expendable one now it appears. I have never been so ASHAMED of you politicians. I didn't think you would attack the old and weak. This is the act of COWARDS.

    Report on 24 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • LandOfConfusion
    Love rating 64
    LandOfConfusion said

    A few years ago there was a series of programs on TV about this country's current structural issues and what could happen if they weren't fixed soon. One of these episodes was on the pensions crisis.

    After describing the problem and showing a possible future Britain they then had an interview with a Boomer who was nearing retirement. After watching it I came away with three very clear things in my mind, all of which are evident here in these comments:

    1. The Boomers are very militant and likely to stand up for what they think are their rights, something which my generation has sadly so far failed to develop.

    2. The Boomers are very greedy.

    3. As far as the Boomers are concerned it's not their fault. And even though it is they shouldn't have to pay for it because they're old/worked hard in unproductive jobs/voted in people who didn't care about the future.

    Now in that particular episode they suggested we were heading for a crunch. I wonder.

    Report on 25 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • ladylady
    Love rating 1
    ladylady said

    Something that has been overlooked is the housing benefit reduction for pensioners.

    Nothing was mentioned about this but this year, along with families that live in privately rented accomodation, pensioners housing benefit will be reduced by approx. 10%.

    As with most people that privately rent, the housing benefit does not cover the rent to start with. Nor is this for a London mansion.

    An example is a small, run down two bed bungalow. The couple will have to pay £400 per month over the housing benefit allowance from next month.

    This along with the rises in fuel and food gives a very miserable picture to an old couple that are unable to go out and get a job or alter their life in any way.

    This is cruel and completely insensitive by a government that really does not care for the poor.

    Report on 26 March 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love

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