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Why house sellers are deluded

Felicity Hannah
by Lovemoney Staff Felicity Hannah on 31 May 2012  |  Comments 40 comments

Stubborn sellers are part of the reason the housing market is so slow.

Why house sellers are deluded

We've tried to buy three houses lately, and three times the seller has been unwilling to meet our offers. 

“We have advised them that it’s a good offer, but they still aren’t keen to drop the price any further,” explained the estate agent. “I’m sorry, the seller won’t budge any further on the price,” sighed another.

“The vendor says they are delighted to accept your offer, as long as you can pay an additional £6,000 for fixtures and fittings,” said a third, before telling me it “certainly isn’t tax evasion”.

Each offer was the result of careful assessment, using all the tools at our disposal. We’ve been looking for a new home for two months now and it’s starting to look like we’ll never find one.

Or at least, never find one at the right price.

The peak

It must be hard to accept that your property is worth less than it was. I know it was hard for us. We bought our little starter home at the peak of the property boom and then watched tens of thousands of pounds fall off the value.

But that’s why we’re gaining consent to lease rather than selling it, which you can read about in my article Could I – should I – get a buy-to-let mortgage?’.

Homeowners wanting to sell right now need to get real. Since the peak of the market, property prices have fallen by a painful amount.

Figures compiled by Nationwide show that a property worth £162,722 today was worth £184,131 in 2007. Factor in inflation and that’s a ‘real’ comparable peak price of £212,887.

That’s quite a drop in value and it’s bound to be hard to accept. But if sellers won’t admit that their property value has fallen then that’s another drag, slowing down the housing market.

It’s not just that new buyers and second-steppers can’t afford to stump up inflated prices - although why should they?

Lenders demand a valuation of a property before approving a mortgage. If the price is too high then this can mean holdups and even cause sales to fall through.

Finding the price

We’re not making unrealistically low offers on the houses we’ve considered. I’m confident that every offer we’ve made has been at around the right price – and the estate agents I’ve spoken to have agreed.

We’ve checked comparable property sales within the area using the website Nethouseprices. We looked at the last sales prices using Zoopla, which also gave us an estimated value.

We had been using the site UpMyStreet to learn about local schools and neighbours, but that has since been sold to Zoopla. On top of that, we checked out crime in the area using UKCrimeStats.com.

Then we used the Rightmove price comparison tool to see how the asking prices compared to other properties for sale in the area.

It was the comparison tool that really opened our eyes. We saw two properties needing at least £20,000 of modernisation that were on the market at the same price as modern and beautifully decorated homes.

Because we’d concentrated our search on one area, we could easily compare and see just how inflated these asking prices were.

It was also shocking to see just how little effort some sellers were going to, despite their high asking prices. In one home, a teenage girl didn’t bother getting out of bed to let us view the room. It might be a buyer’s market but no one seems to have told many of the sellers in this town.

Is the message getting through?

Maybe sellers are becoming more realistic. The most recent data from Rightmove shows that new sellers failed to raise their asking prices in May.

That’s the first time that’s happened since the website began measuring house market statistics more than a decade ago.

Miles Shipside, director of Rightmove said that prices normally rose in May, as the market picks up.

“Perhaps the first-time buyer stamp duty holiday, and the knock-on activity it helped to create, has concertinaed the market’s stronger than expected early spring momentum into the first four months of the year rather than the usual six.”

He also suggested that the wet May will have been keeping would-be buyers at home, while a summer of sports and Jubilee celebrations could serve as a distraction over the next few months.

So if you’re planning to put your property on the market in the near future, be aware that it’s still a very tough market. Make sure you understand the real value of your home and that you’re not living in the past.

Using the tools above lets you see what information potential buyers will consider when suggesting a price.

If you think your property is worth more than these tools suggest, then make sure people understand where the extra value is coming from. Highlight the bigger garden or the extension or the brand new kitchen – or whatever it is that makes your home worth more.

And remember, the key to selling a house is to make it easy for the potential buyer to imagine themselves living there. So please, kick your teenagers out of bed before anyone looks round.

You could also try selling your home like a Norwegian.

Offer accepted

Since I began this article, one of the houses we made an offer for came back to us and grudgingly accepted our top price. With any luck we’ll be moving by the end of the summer.

The reason the seller was able to accept our price was that they used our lower-than-expected offer to negotiate down the price on the property they wanted to buy.

So, we get the price we can afford and they don’t lose out as they upsize. Admittedly someone somewhere along the chain is going to take the hit, but I don’t see why it should be us. Our current home has lost a lot of its value and we’re hardly in a position to overpay for our next.

There’s certainly one lesson to learn here. If you’re selling a house and the only offers you’re receiving are lower than you want, then you need to drive an equally hard bargain when you come to buy your next home.

More on buying and selling property:

How to deal with property chain problems

The hidden cost of buying a new build

How to rent out your home

Selling homes: How to do it in a slump

How to cut the cost of moving home

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Comments (40)

  • victoriamke
    Love rating 0
    victoriamke said

    This is a very good article. Best I have seen from Felicity for a long time.

    Report on 30 May 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • aggieuk
    Love rating 1
    aggieuk said

    This rant sounds to me that someone isn't very happy that her low offers aren't being accepted by anyone! Why can't you keep posts like this on Facebook and keep the professional articles for this site?

    Report on 06 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • dpoliver
    Love rating 1
    dpoliver said

    This is incomplete analysis. Have you followed up on the actual selling prices of the houses that you failed to get. If they are still languishing on the market, you can make a valid case. Otherwise it sounds like you are just whingeing.

    Report on 06 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • mikecunliffe
    Love rating 22
    mikecunliffe said

    As I started to read this article I also thought it was simply "a moan". I was particularly annoyed with the belief that the offers made to the vendors were "carefully assessed" as if the author was an expert buyer.

    I'm selling a house at the moment, my deceased mother's. The agent has indicated a guide price and I presume this is based on his experience and expertise - that's why I selected this agent. If offers are made at sensible discounts to my asking price I'll likely accept as there's no upward chain.

    Whilst I believe however that everything is worth only as much as somebody is prepared to pay for it should you wish to buy a particular house, indeed any house, after repeatedly being refused because of a low offer price you should also wise-up and either cease looking until you can afford the required price or simply increase your offer.

    Don't come on here moaning about stubborn sellers. I find your report hypocritical in view of the fact you intend to lease your old house. Sell it and use the proceeds towards a higher purchase offer.

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  • andy44
    Love rating 8
    andy44 said

    The only way to get a cheaper deal is to find a seller who is willing to sell at a knocked down price. Unfortunately these opportunities typically get snapped quickly by those in the know, eg estate agents + friends.

    To the comment made above about final selling prices, a seller is not obliged to sell at all - it is not an auction. The fact that a house has not sold does not mean that you have a valid case to take to the seller - noone can know the circumstances and how long the seller is determined to wait (sometimes for ever).

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  • gr8it
    Love rating 6
    gr8it said

    As I read this article, my overwhelming thought was that you were 'pissed off' that the vendors had not accepted your expertly calculated offer price. The more I read the article, and that you give credence to Zoopla and any other website regarding coming to a conclusion ( a website that tells me my property, bought in 2006 for £395,000 is still worth over £300,000, when it reality, it recently had to sell for £225,000), I had to laugh.

    My advice, if you find a house you like and want to buy it, listen to the vendors request, put in an offer, and if they are not interested, either offer them something they will accept, or sling your hook.

    You appear to be looking for a desperate Vendor, we are not all desperate, and with interest rates at historically low rates, many are prepared to wait for a recovery, and many like myself, are prepared to accept 'reasonable' offers.

    I think, like the other two commentators here, you are simply moaning that you could not get the discount you wanted, but not so annoyed that you could not get the house you wanted, which, had you paid the right price for, you could have had.

    Get a life, and buy a house that you want and can afford. Its easy enough if you are willing to pay the right price. Remember all the vendors will have had an expert 'value' their property, and I value the estate agents expertise way above the logic you are using here. You are even using the Crime site to value a property, thats really lame...

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  • Per Andersson
    Love rating 0
    Per Andersson said

    "Admittedly someone somewhere along the chain is going to take the hit, but I don’t see why it should be us. Our current home has lost a lot of its value and we’re hardly in a position to overpay for our next." - So its OK for you to 'not take the hit' so long as you get what you want at the price you want - if we all did exactly this no one would sell and no one would move.

    I agree with the previous poster - we will all accept 'reasonable' offers, and won't be bullied in to selling at a price that the buyer can afford.

    As for Zoopla - that's a useful guide but not one to be heavily relied on - my house is valued by Zoopla by some £20k over my estate agents valuation range, and the house I am interested in is valued at some £20k BELOW what the estate agent reckons - so who is right? If I went to the vendor and said that I can only offer what Zoolpla says its worth then I'd quickly be shown the door! The local estate agents have local knowledge and are best placed to comment on local values. Some do inflate prices a touch, but in this tough market the last thing they want is loads of unsold houses on their books so they HAVE to price and value them at a level that is realistic for both the vendor and the buyer.

    Have you spoken with the vendors etstate agent about your offers - I bet they don't think your offer is reasonable??7

    As the previous posters have said - your attitude to house prices sounds somewhat like someone who says 'I won't accept less than my valuation for my house but I expect top be able to knock chunks of the house I buy' - good luck with this! I think the strongest negotiator is the one with oodles of cash in the bank - if you don't need a mortgage and can offer a 28 day offer to completion process then you stand a chance of knocking loads off the asking price - if you need a mortgage, then you don't stand a chance.

    Buy what you can afford or save more till you can afford it.

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  • Henry-GBG
    Love rating 46
    Henry-GBG said

    The land market is sticky-downwards. There are about 700,000 vacant properties and 300,000 planning consents where no building has taken place. Developers trickle the properties on to the market.

    I had a house in Brighton which estate agents encouraged me to think could be sold for over £370k. It stuck on the market for months, which did not bother me as I was not quite ready to move.

    When I was eventually keen to be on my way I asked an estate agent to put it on at £350k and indicate that offers would be accepted. I eventually settled for £338k. Got something more suitable for my needs for £80k less.

    Both sellers and agents have a vested interest in trying to find a buyer who will overpay. Don't fall for it, especially if prices are on the slide, ie in most of the UK. Hold off. A good guide is that prices are about 10% down from their 2006 peak.

    What the country really needs is reform of the Council Tax. It should be replaced by a national tax based on annualised site values ie rental values. There are large tracts of the country where house prices are little more than rebuilding cost and the land value is just above zilch, so no tax would be payable. This would ensure that in areas of high demand people would let or sell empty houses, land with housing consent would get developed or sold to someone who was seriously intending to build, and everyone would think more carefully about where they really wanted to live, rather than sitting inside their investment. We would all soon be much happier.

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  • AndyP
    Love rating 24
    AndyP said

    My parents have their house on the market at £275K (in line with the other houses in the area). They have yet to receive an offer above £230K. Are they deluded? Maybe... but to get the kind of house they intend to move to (in a cheaper area), they're going to need to spend at least £250K. So, what, they should obligingly accept the offer of £230K to make the buyer feel good... and find the remaining £20K+ by looking down the back of the sofa, presumably? I mean just what do you expect them to do?

    You might argue that the people asking in the region of £250K for their smaller house are also deluded. The funny thing about money is that it's an abstract - when EVERYONE is deluded, no-one is deluded. You can't say a house is only "worth" X when the seller wants X+Y, and needs X+Y to move themselves. In that case X is meaningless.

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  • gez
    Love rating 8
    gez said

    It's a pity that the many people who seem to take such delight in ripping apart every single article (but clearly keep reading them) and demonstrating their superior knowledge cannot find the motivation to perhaps write some, but maybe they would be worried being knocked off the pedestals they build for themselves!

    As someone who is thinking of putting my house on the market, I found the article of interest, and it becomes one of many inputs that will shape my decisions on pricing, agent advice, considering and making offers etc etc.

    Well done to the author, it is always interesting and useful to hear of others situations and views. The article clearly is not written as a solution and panacea.

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  • johncnuttall
    Love rating 9
    johncnuttall said

    AndyP, the answer to your question is "yes, your parents are deluded". If they are only receiving offers of £230k then that is what their house is worth. The market decides on what an item is worth not the vendor. Not always an easy pill to swallow but nevertheless that is how a free market economy works

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  • gr8it
    Love rating 6
    gr8it said

    @ gez, Just remember then, when the agent tells you that your house is worth X to subtract 20% before you place it on the market so that buyers like the editor can step in and make you an 'expert' but 'derisory' offer on your modest price expectation.

    To give any credence to this article is ridiculous, bargain hunters are always out there, always have been, but being a buyers market does not mean that we all have to buckle to the low offers.

    I'd have given the editor a lot more credit had he been up front enough to tell us how much of a discount he was expecting to pay against the original asking price. If he is talking a few % of the asking price, I'd agree the vendors were being unrealistic, however, if he is dropping the price 10-20%, I think he would be the unrealistic party, without that information, this article is totally without foundation or credibility.

    Good luck with the house sale, I hope you find a reasonable agent and buyer. Its taken me 4 agents and dropping my current house price by 10% over two years to find a purchaser, and I dropped the price another 3% to get the sale. I took in the end, what was reasonable in the current market, but later found out that the purchaser who pleaded poverty is buying with cash and is going to spend around £50k changing the property. Could they have afforded my reduced asking price? I think they could, but they held the cards and I was willing to sell in the end. To the editor, the purchaser offered me £30k more than their opening offer. Had I taken their original offer, the reduction in price over 2 years would have been 20%. The mathematicians amongst you can work out the price i sold at based on the figures.

    There are fewer people willing to sell at the lower prices, that will alter, but only if they 'have' to sell. If they dont, they will sit out the fluctuation in price and wait for an improvement. Its supply and demand, but everyone has to be realistic, even the purchaser!

    Tell us what your sob story is based on in figures terms and maybe we will have some sympathy, just saying 'they wont play ball' is not going to get any votes from me for a good article. Yes, I read it purely because I could tell from the headline that this was a negative article and I think editors printing this stuff should have more gumption and backbone to print the whole story.

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  • gr8it
    Love rating 6
    gr8it said

    @johncnuttall, what a total load of bunkem, if the market was worth what people offered, prices would soon be £0, as the bargain hunters would always know the 'right price'. Bargain hunters are purely that. The rest of the market settles to an affordable level, and generally a substainable level.

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  • time2go
    Love rating 66
    time2go said

    johncnuttall - may be worth remembering that in this market a lot of people make low offers in the hope to make a quick buck!. So just because people offer that sum, does not mean that is what it's worth.

    gr8it, I admire you're faith in estate agents, unfortunately I have yet to find one who puts the customer before the commission. I think using estate agents may be necessary for many, but when using their 'expertise' just remember caveat emptor.

    ....it's always easy to criticise articles..... not so easy to take criticism.... but maybe constructive criticism is more helpful.

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  • jt
    Love rating 4
    jt said

    Property prices (and their expectations) have risen ridiculously in the last 10 years,

    - but maybe that's just my age showing. Now the system is going the other way.

    I think it best to price things on replacement value. i.e. what would it cost to build now.

    After that, it's anyone's guess. If you buy above replacement, have a good reason -

    or watch out! If below replacement value, you have room for bargaining. No problem.

    jt www.mycall.mobi.

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  • Neil Faulkner
    Love rating 32
    Neil Faulkner said

    I don't understand why people have to comment so unpleasantly. I guess they feel safe making comments like that from their own homes or offices.

    I think you should all think about how you express your opinions. I think you should imagine you've met the writer and other posters at the pub and are debating amicably over a beer. These comment sections are much more useful and enjoyable if there is amicable debate rather than nastiness.

    Felicity makes a great point with this article. Compare average, real-time asking prices to average sale prices and the gap is far too wide, with the gap widening even when buyers are reducing the amount they're willing to pay.

    Presumably many sellers are being unrealistically optimistic and hopeful. Others are probably chancers seeing if they'll get lucky because they don't really need to sell at a lower price, which is fair enough.

    Other sellers believe that starting high is the best way to negotiate a fair deal in the end. That strategy is a pretty standard misconception that I've written about before on this website. Price high and you'll attract fewer viewings, and fewer people who can fall in love with your property. Price low instead and you'll get many more viewings more quickly, many more people potentially falling in love with your property, more offers, a bidding war, and you'll find what people are willing to pay for your property more quickly. If the highest bid isn't high enough for you, you don't have to sell.

    After I ordered an estate agent some years ago to change to this strategy when I was selling a house (it resisted strongly) it later emailed all its customers to say that it had a new strategy. The strategy bore a 100% resemblance to my successful one, although it didn't give me any credit for it! I have sold two properties very successfully with the same strategy.

    By the way, I speak as someone with no bias regarding the UK housing market, since I now live in Germany and have no intention of returning to the UK.

    Neil

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  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Greece will be Europes Lehmans and Iran by-passing the petro-dollar with infrastructure deals with China and Russia is the real weapon of mass economic destruction for the US and UK.

    UK assets are on a thread and values are soon to crumble. Unfortunately most in the UK will not be in a position to buy as capitalism as we know it comes to an end.

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  • Perry525
    Love rating 25
    Perry525 said

    Put simply, a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it!

    You just have to wait until the right person comes along, who wants your home, in your location.

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  • electricblue
    Love rating 643
    electricblue said

    @Aquasponge - Did you use a random anti-capitalist gibberish generator for that post?

    Perfectly reasonable article, but recently some Lovemoney offerings have become more like personal blogs than widely researched journalism and they attract comments accordingly. Perhaps, Neil, you have forgotten that in Britain we have frank and heated discussions in the pub and we don't act politely to your face then talk about you behind your back as they probably do in your German local. Surely someone with no intention of returning to the UK IS biased?

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  • homebuyer
    Love rating 1
    homebuyer said

    While I enjoyed the article I think that it might have looked deeper into two factors affecting the current property market.

    1. Stamp duty goes up from 1% to 3% on the entire purchase price once a property goes over £250k. In our area of Northern England, this has created a vastly artificial market, whereby a lot of properties that would otherwise be £260-£280k are going on for £250k, as buyers simply won't pay an extra £5k in Stamp Duty for houses slightly above the £250k mark. This, in turn, is making properties that should rightly be just below the £250k threshold look expensive by comparison, which pushes their price down. Naturally this is good news for buyers in the £200-£250k market, but bad news for all sellers in the £200-£280k bracket.

    2. Whether you're up- or down-marketing, we all need to get the best possible price for our properties. So if we have to accept a little less than we'd like to get, we'll be adjusting our offer for our next house accordingly. However, a market full of people looking for super cut-price bargains (such as the writer of this article, perhaps) will ultimately lead to stagnation rather than a true re-adjustment of the market, simply because those of us who don't absolutely have to move will simply stay put, rather than giving away our greatest asset.

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  • gonfishin
    Love rating 11
    gonfishin said

    Thanks Perry525 for making the most valuable comment so far.

    The fact is that houses are NOT like commodities - even on an estate of similar ones, each can be individual in so many ways - the outlook, garden, "smell", internal fitting-out, standard of maintenance and so on..Add to that the fact that humans are not rational in their decision making, and you can start to understand why there never is a "right" price for domestic property.

    It's not what "the market" says it's worth - and certainly not what some greedy estate agent says, who will either be looking to maximise his commission or, more likely in the current climate, to increase the probability of an early sale by pitching it low. It's what a particular individual or family decide its worth to them - and then whether they can afford it.

    Selling a house ought to be treated in the same way as looking for a husband - you could just take the first offer - but would probably be wiser to wait for Mr Right!

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  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    The article was about UK asset values. IMHO the two biggest factors that will impact these is the outcome from Greece and Iran. I appreciate that not all understand what Nixon did in 1972 and how that deal with Opec led to a 40 year USD bull run. What Iran has recently signed with China and Russia is undermining this.

    Understanding that capitalism is changing is not necessarily anti-capitalist. You can protect your wealth in a capitalist way and some are going to make fortunes in the coming months.

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  • mambach
    Love rating 33
    mambach said

    Aquasponge: I was under the impression that the article was about house prices.

    I suppose my differing assumption is that most people buy a house to live in, not just to make money out of. It's not an asset, it's my home.

    Unless one is employed by an Iranian company; it is unlikely that 'how much can I get in mortgage' and 'how much deposit do I have' are going to be affected by any macro-economic factor _that will not equally affect the other guy_

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  • Neil Faulkner
    Love rating 32
    Neil Faulkner said

    Hi electricblue

    Thanks for your comment. You said: "Surely someone with no intention of returning to the UK IS biased?"

    I've heard that before. Everyone will be accused of bias regardless of their situation. Renters in the UK "must" be biased because they want to buy, or because they sold and don't want to be proved wrong. Buyers "must" be biased because they own and don't want to be proved wrong. People who've moved from the UK "must" have done so for financial reasons and must be regretting selling up. And anyone who doesn't live in the UK can't understand the housing market any more.

    The truth with me is I left the UK for entirely personal reasons that aren't in any way connected to the property market. Even though I still like the UK a lot and visit often, I have no feelings for the property market. I don't gain or lose from what the property market does.

    But that won't stop some people still thinking I'm biased. That's the strength of feeling about property. You got that right about heated discussions in the pub then, electricblue, but the difference there is that you can all forget afterwards and raise your glasses to each other after you've all had your say. In the comments section of a Web article the aggressive tone just lingers.

    Neil

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  • Mike10613
    Love rating 599
    Mike10613 said

    The value of a property is what someone is willing to pay for it. It;s the 'law of supply and demand'. Speculation in property was fuelled by irresponsible lending by banks; it seems those days are over. We might see a more stable market for houses now and more so if the government builds more social housing. I think the article title was a little deluded though. :)

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  • OorWullie
    Love rating 38
    OorWullie said

    Ten years ago I put my property on the market for £150,000 and after 10 months and 23 viewers (one couple undoubtedly caging the joint) the agent advised that the price should be reduced to £130,000 to attract more interest which it did; I got one offer from someone who had been looking at the sale for some time as the house was in the right locality for his family but he could not afford the £150,000 so the house went for £130,000. Eighteen months later, and without doing an Ann Maurice, he resold it for £325,000! At the time I was selling the market had hit a recession which proved only to be temporary but which compelled me to sell it below its value; it was necessary that I should move house. Retrospectively, if I could have waited longer I would have got my price and possibly even a better one. Clearly, buying and selling property is a roulette game where there are losers and winners. No one, at the time, could have predicted that the market would have been so volatile.

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  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    I thought the author (and LM who choose the titles) thought sellers of property were deluding themselves by keeping their house prices too high.

    My take, for what its worth (not a lot), is that owners of UK housing have been able to do this for two reasons. 1). Bank forbearance (saving 5 to 8 % of all mortgagees according to the FSA) and 2). Super low interest rates.

    Greece being thrown to the wolves and Iran by-passing the petro-dollar with China and now Russia are the biggest threat to the UK sellers brief new reality IMHO.

    I find it interesting that some are blind to this and do not see the link. This is why I love this site - real people sailing through life oblivious to the icebergs all around them.

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  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Yes sellers are deluded. House prices are determined by supply and demand though this has very little to do with the number of actual houses. It is supply and demand of credit.

    When Lehman was thrown to the wolves credit markets froze and capitalism changed, some say forever as Freddie and Fannie were nationalised along with most of the UK banking sector. When Greece is thrown to the wolves, some say this will be Lehmans times three.

    The petro-dollar was born in 1954 and was made up of a basket of currencies from the West (Gbp, Ffr,D-mark and Usd). This has been the basis for the Wests prosperity for the last 60+ years. Iran, China, Russia, the rest of the Brics and some of SE Asia are unwinding this. The West has to strike Iran to keep control. Oh dear, the best option for UK asset values is an attack on Iran involving Turkey, Saudi and the West vs Iran, Syria, Russia and maybe China.

    All out war involving some pretty big powers or the basis of the West prosperity terminated. It doesn't look good for UK housing either way. I'm probably wrong but what a debate (and better than...my house sold for £20K more than I paid for it so aren't I clever...). Happy dreaming. :-)

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  • gr8it
    Love rating 6
    gr8it said

    I'd like to apologise to Felicity for any offence caused when replying to her article. As a vendor recently 'fleeced' by some unscrupulous purchasers, only this weekend, my wounds were a little sore. I still have an opportunity to withdraw from the sale and I am considering my situation carefully.

    However, that doesnt excuse me from being more constructive and considerate regarding my comments as Neil mentioned.

    On the constructive side, I would still say that Felicity would have been able to buy all three of the houses she made an offer on, had she been more realistic about her offers, or paid the asking price. If you seriously want a house because its the right house in the right location, you should be prepared to pay the asking price, or close to it in my view, Vendors are a stubborn bunch in the UK, and not obliged to drop their price, so whilst I still disagree that Vendors are deluded, and I think the article was too one sided and not specific enough in the detail of the offers for us to judge the article fully , I was clearly smarting from my own experience and unable to give a balanced view myself yesterday.

    Perhaps Felicity was a little frustrated that the vendors didnt buckle, but as with many of the house price articles especially on LM, the title did carry too much bias and will cause people to give a heated response. Perhaps the title of the article could have been better worded, or if that were left the same, perhaps a more balanced picture could have emerged from the article.

    We should all consider the other side of the argument and other peoples feelings, I totally agree on that point. Shame Felicity didnt reflect on both sides here, perhaps she would have purchased one of the houses if she had been less critical of the vendors inflexible approach, as it appears both sides were inflexible. I'd still like to know what the figures were that Felicity was relating to, eg the offer prices and the asking prices.

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • mrs weatherley
    Love rating 31
    mrs weatherley said

    I hear it is a buyers market but that only applies to realistic offers otherwise the sellers cannot afford to move, there can be some price flexibility within chains, but often not in lower price areas where survey / mortgage and legal fees eat up a disproportionate sum of the money changing hands.

    We also have a goo many people afraid to move because of the total uncertainty within the jobs market....deluded home sellers? really just because you did not get your own way?

    The situation we find ourselves in as a country is very complex we don't need trite comments masquerading as good advice thank you.

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • moli
    Love rating 0
    moli said

    Estate Agents are to blame. They control what a house is put on market for in the end. Estate Agents dont pass on everything buyer says to the vendor, they play the game for their gain and it often falls through in the end wasting everyone s time. Estate Agents can save the vendors time before it begins by "being Honest" Thats a word not often used with Estate Agents, but buyers only see what the agent has put on and waste their own time when potential buyers see what the property is actually worth i.e. what buyer wants to pay. There would be more buyers if Agents made it easier and more appealing to be in the market.

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • moli
    Love rating 0
    moli said

    The market would be better for all if the government looked at the high cost of stamp duty. The reason this came into being is outdated , too high, unreasonable. Its a reason why buyers make offers then do the sums and find they cant afford it

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • SiGl26
    Love rating 26
    SiGl26 said

    Not seen anyone make the obvious comment back to the Author; bide your time, come back to these three vendors in January, and offer 5 -10% less than you just did. If they are indeed deluded the houses will still be on the market; if they've sold, then they know the market better than you... You can also ask them to keep in touch if they decide to drop the price

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • hopefultom
    Love rating 43
    hopefultom said

    Felicity

    The problem with the article, which has been picked up by several others, is that there is a hint of sour grapes running through it because vendors are not playing " the same game " as you. Why should they ?

    You have been offered some good advice in the comments, particularly about treating your house as your home, rather than a commodity.

    Good luck with your purchase; hope there are no snags

    Neil

    Do I detect an allusion to Cliff in your comments ?

    Nickpike

    Where are you ?

    Report on 07 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Felicity Hannah
    Love rating 10
    Felicity Hannah said

    Hello everyone,

    Some really interesting discussion here, thanks for engaging so much with my article - even if you didn't all agree! Thanks especially to those who suggested we keep the tone pleasant - I like a debate (thus my headline!) but I also appreciate it when the tone is friendly and not aggressive.

    I suppose that what has frustrated me is that the houses we wanted were overpriced given the current market. We weren't trying to get a certain percentage off or drive a seller to the financial brink, we just didn't want to overpay for our next home - we can't afford to. We have a very high loan to value and unless we made the right offer, the bank would have refused to lend to us.

    As I said, one of the owners came back and accepted our final offer, and we hope to complete in the next four weeks.

    I'd like to add that it's essential everyone looks out for their own interests in the current market. Admittedly, if we all paid inflated prices then the market might recover faster, but only if the banks were willing to lend at those prices. As a couple with a young family, I don't see why I should have to support the beginnings of a second property price bubble - I already got stung when the last one popped (see my buy-to-let article).

    Sellers don't have to sell at reduced offers, but they should make clear why their asking prices are so high if they believe their homes are worth that. I think there's a lot of unwillingness to accept that a house has fallen in value (in at least one of the properties that was because of an 'equity release' deal that effectively trapped them in that property until the market recovers). It's in sellers' best interests to accept that and make informed decisions about whether to sell or not.

    Finally, I'd like to agree with Homebuyer - the stamp duty thresholds do create a plateau where houses can't sell for between £250,001 and £270,000 - and this is a ridiculous situation.

    Thanks again for the interesting debate, good luck buying, selling or sticking.

    Fliss

    Report on 08 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • serendipity
    Love rating 3
    serendipity said

    I have bought and sold in both England and Scotland. In England, the estate agent that 'values' the house at the highest (often unachievable) price, gets the job of selling, so obviously overvalues, and then after little interest suggests the price is reduced (to a similar amount that other agents suggested in the first place).

    In Scotland houses go to bids (if you are lucky) a sort of secret auction, but the seller is not obliged to accept any.

    My house was valued at £210,000 and went on the market at that price. Plenty of viewers but no 'sensible' offers. I reduced the price to £200,000 but still nothing.

    After a couple of months, I took it off the market briefly, cleaned the carpets, new bedlinen in main bedroom, new bathroom vinyl, white towels throughout and spring cleaned- nothing extensive, probably spent a few hundred in all.

    Put it back on the market at £200,000- the first week I had many viewers, 5 keen, I went to bids, had 3 bids, and the highest, which I accepted was over £200,000. In that time, the houses I was interested in buying had also dropped a similar percentage.

    So, if it is at the right price, it gets the interest.

    Report on 09 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AndyP
    Love rating 24
    AndyP said

    @johncnuttal, the point you're missing is that my parents are ALSO BUYERS, as well as being sellers. They need the money from their own house to fund their next purchase. If selling their own house at a low price - because buyers magically know "how much it is worth" - means they are unable to buy a smaller property in a cheaper area... what good does it do them? None at all!

    "Something is worth only what people will pay for it" only works in a vacuum. In the real world, the worth of something *also* has to compare to other, similar things. My parents *cannot* accept that their house is worth less than the asking price *unless* everyone else in the country does the same - or they'll have nowhere to live! Still delusion? Well, it's a delusion that's shared by everybody then, which pretty much makes it reality.

    Report on 12 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • teamgreenzx7r
    Love rating 1
    teamgreenzx7r said

    If the price is realistic, then the interest in the property will usually be there. Having worked for an EA, I was advised that many agents often gave the vendor an inflated selling price, which incidentally was`nt the `policy` where I was employed.

    I suppose the prospect of making a killing always clouded the matter.

    On the other hand, when a vendor was given a price by us, it was up to them whether or not they were happy to go onto the market at that suggested price. If they wanted to go at a higher price, we were obliged to comply with their wishes, or point them elsewhere.

    Report on 13 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • kronk
    Love rating 0
    kronk said

    House sellers aren't deluded. When we tried to buy a small buy to let flat last year, despite sellers being desperate, most were unable to accept an offer below the valuation, or even at the valuation, because of outstanding finance. Without an offer which covers the outstanding finance, they had to say that they regretfully couldn't sell. We eventually got round the problem of having to pay over market price by asking a seller to throw in all her furniture. It wasn't my fault, but I felt sorry that she had owned her own flat for four years, perhaps buying in 2007 with a 100% mortgage, presumably bought nice furniture for it, and she basically had to walk away with just a suitcase or face not selling at all. From what I've heard she was one of the lucky ones because at least she got rid of it, many FTBs with big mortgages are stuck.

    Report on 18 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Sam_123
    Love rating 0
    Sam_123 said

    As a home buyer i understand the frustration of viewing a property, making an offer you feel is right, and then your offer getting rejected - However, although frustrating, you must remember that there are always people out there that will be willing to pay more than you and the sellers know this - if they are not in a rush to sell, they will wait for such a buyer.

    I am currently in the middle of a purchase and used zoopla.com to understand the average selling price however, the estimate it gave me was much lower than the most recent house sold! So i don't believe it is very trustworthy.

    Also, regardless of the interior of the house, some areas are much popular than others, so even if the house is too small or has a weird shape, the price is dependant on the area and hence people are willing to pay more just to live in that location for many reasons (schools, shops, doctors, hospitals, tarnsport, etc). I was offered a guide price when viewing properties (was given a range from x-y) and offered the lower end of each property. My offers however did get accepted, but it was about being realistic too. All the properties i went to see(be it a coincidence - i'm not sure!) belonged to retired couples who were freehold owners - they were not in a rush to sell, their homes were in good conditions in nice locations, therefore, we knew as buyers that were not ever going to sell lower than the low end of the guide price - so you need to be realistic to the sellers situation...

    Report on 27 June 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

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