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The Perils Of Saving Offshore

Published 21 October 2008 in Grow your wealth

Seven thousand people could lose savings worth £860 million following the collapse of an Isle of Man-based bank. They’ve been called greedy tax dodgers, but they’re not...

In the spring of 2005, following the sale of my house, I had a large cash sum looking for a safe home. Like most people with savings, my goal was to find a secure place for this pot, while earning a table-topping rate of interest.

During the course of my investigations, I looked into offshore savings accounts, but decided against them in the end.

Why? I was put off squirreling my nuts offshore due to the lack of depositor protection offered in these islands, as I explained a year ago in Are Offshore Savings Accounts Safe?.

In the tax havens of Guernsey and Jersey, there was (and is) no depositor protection whatsoever. Likewise, in 2007, the safety-net was pretty weak in the Isle of Man. And while the Isle of Man scheme has recently been strengthened to the first £50,000 of savings (the same level of protection offered by the UK’s Financial Services Compensation Scheme), it’s massively under-funded.

So I decided saving offshore was too risky for my liking, and I invested my money in a UK bank instead.

Looking back, I wish that I had done much more to warn Fool readers about the perils of saving offshore. In particular, I should have followed my instincts and urged readers to steer clear of the riskiest banks: offshore subsidiaries without a parental guarantee from a UK-based parent.

The Icelandic aftermath

I feel especially upset for customers of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (KSF), a subsidiary of collapsed Icelandic bank Kaupthing, who had money with its Isle of Man subsidiary. Given that their deposits are not unprotected by the UK government, these stressed savers are forced to rely on the Isle of Man’s limited protection scheme, plus any payout from the wind-up of parent bank Kaupthing.

According to various sources, seven thousand UK savers have a total of £860 million tied up in KSF (IoM). Although the upgraded IoM scheme now covers the first £50,000 on deposit per person, the IoM government simply doesn’t have the cash to pay out £350 million (7,000 x £50,000).

Customers of Landsbanki Guernsey, a division of another failed Icelandic bank, are in a similar boat. There is no depositor protection in Guernsey, but the administrator of the bank aims to recover at least three-tenths (30%) of these savers’ deposits.

Aren’t these people greedy tax dodgers?

Sadly, I’ve read comments online describing these savers as ‘greedy tax dodgers looking for a government handout’. This description is unfair as, according to the KSFIOM Depositors’ Action Group, out of 479 savers registered with the website:

• Three-fifths (60%) are UK citizens working or living overseas, who found it all-but-impossible to open a UK savings account without a permanent address here.

• UK citizens who are UK-resident account for another quarter (25%).

• Only one in nine (11%) are non-UK citizens who are non-resident.

So, the majority of savers who lost out did so because strict money-laundering regulations prevented them from banking their cash in the UK, where it would be protected by the FSCS and the implicit government guarantee not to allow UK savers to lose a penny. It’s also worth noting that KSFIOM depositors stand to lose vast sums, as follows:

Savings

amount (£)

Number of

respondents

Percentage

of savers (%)

Up to 1,000

7

1

1,000 to 9,999

40

5

10,000 to 49,999

252

29

50,000 to 99,999

164

19

100,000 to 249,999

211

25

250,000 to 499,999

111

13

500,000 to 999,999

50

6

1,000,000+

24

3

Total

859

100

What if it happened to you?

Some readers may not have much sympathy for savers who chose to deposit hundreds of thousands of pounds in a small offshore bank. I think the story is much more complex than this. Many of these well-off savers sold UK businesses before retiring abroad. Others currently live and work overseas, and thus are prevented from keeping their nest eggs safe in the UK.

So, before you move to criticise these unfortunate folk, put yourself in their shoes. How would you feel if your lifetime’s work was wiped out overnight?

Finally, this shows that even long-established banks in politically and economically stable regions are not necessarily bombproof. Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander has operated in one form or another in the Isle of Man since 1971 -- a record which may have convinced savers of its stability. Let’s hope the UK, Icelandic and Isle of Man governments will be able to untangle this mess and restore the majority (if not all) of these funds to their owners -- as the alternative may be too much to bear.

More: Big Banks For Safe Savings | Glimmer Of Hope For Kaupthing Savers | ING Still Looks Fine

> Compare savings accounts via Fool.co.uk

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Comments

  • 0 recommendations

My fellow Fools,

If you're still feeling unsympathetic to these savers, then a few of these heart-breaking tales should do the trick:

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/21

There are so many awful, terrible stories of personal suffering and loss (and talk of suicide as the only way out). We mustn't abandon these people.

Cliff

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Cliff, that's a bad link

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It works for me.

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John Aspen, Isle of Man Financial Services Commission Boss told Manx Radio's Mandate programme on Tuesday that the FSC intervened as early as Spring 2008 against the overnight transfer of KSFIoM funds to the bank's troubled and now nationalised Icelandic parent, Kaupthing hf, instituting an overnight transfer to London instead as a precaution. Explaining that Douglas had not received an early warning of the United Kingdom government's decision to freeze KSF assets, Aspen said 'It could have been an oversight, it could have been a policy decision, I don't know … I think it was unfortunate that we were not taken into consideration when the assets of the London (KSF) bank was frozen (but) the idea of lifting the money out and giving it to the Isle of Man may have been seen as giving priority'.
Aspen said the FSC is currently in negotiations with HMG to unfreeze KSFIoM deposits.
For more info, see Manx Radio, Mandate (Tuesda

MatWalker said

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This is the FIRST time I have found an independent description of our plight that actually gets the facts right.

We were FORCED into this position. Before the collapse, we were financially 'comfortable' (although not comfortable enough to buy a house).

We never wanted an Offshore account as we had the same views as many others (dodgy, tax dodging havens for the super rich who can afford to lose the odd million), but because we didnt have a UK address - working abroad - we were forced to.

Now we have lost absolutely everything. And sadly enough the blame appears to rest firmly on the shoulders of Brown and Darling. These two men keep telling the world that they have saved everyone but they are lying. I fail to understand why the UK media have not reaslised what is happening; are news editors really that daft???

Despite the (quite litterally) thousands of emails and letters sent to senior MPs of all Parties we have had NO meaningful reply. That is SHAMEFUL.

Little wonder that we feel the UK, as a whole, has totally let us down despite 25 years of paying taxes, never claiming anything back and being part of society there. Shame on you all.

worthabob said

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were these investors paying uk tax on the interest if yes i believe they should be covered if not then no.
Thats only fair to those who pay interest on deposits in the uk.

Ally68 said

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A good article.

People should realise the vast majority of people who use offshore bank accounts are not tax dodgers or millionaires.

When you leave the UK to live and work abroad it is very hard if not near impossible to open a UK bank account so you have to open one offshore.

If you are residnet in the UK or the EU the Isle of Man deducts tax on interest as exactly the same rate as the UK and transfers the bulk of this tax back to the account holders country of origin. So if anyone living in the UK has an Isle of Man account they are in no way avoiding tax.

More specifically with Kaupthing Isle of Man the bank was solvent and profitable. The only thing was it kept about 60% of its depsoits at Kaupthing UK. When the UK Treasury froze Kaupthing UK this directly led to the failure of the Isle of Man bank as it could not access its funds.

The UK Treasury is directly repsonsible for the failure of the Isle of Man bank by its hasty and ill thought out actions. Kaupthing IoM depositors do not want a UK governemnt bail out, they simply want the UK government to return THEIR money.

MatWalker said

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Yes, tax is paid. The only reason i had an offshore account is that it was impossible for me to keep my onshore account without a UK address.

The UK Government forced me into this whole situation. Now they are mysteriously quiet. Its pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

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I feel sorry for the savers who lost out, but nobody forced anyone into investing money into an Icelandic bank on the IOM.

For example, my friend's mother, who is Japanese and has never lived in the UK, has £70,000 sat onshore with HSBC.

The sad fact is that if these people are bailed out, it's inevitably the tax payer that picks up the tab. I don't want to pick up that tab.

For the record I also believe those with over £50,000 in UK Icelandic institutions were extremely fortunate with how this episode has turned out, although it remains to be seen how fast anyone will get compensation.

MatWalker said

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KSF - Not forced, bad luck.

"For example, my friend's mother, who is Japanese and has never lived in the UK, has £70,000 sat onshore with HSBC." - That is now illegal under the money laundering legislation. I DIDNT want a offshore account and investigated every possble legal (many folk use friends and relatives UK addresses - i'm just TOO honest to do that) route to keep my onshore account as long as i could. In the end the bank forcibly closed it and sent me a cheque.

I dont want the tax payer to pick up any tab either. Neither is it 'inevitable'. I want my money back from the person who has taken it.

Finally I have to disagree that i am 'extremely fortunate' to have over £50,000 in [a] UK Icelandic institution. Want to know why, read this http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/21&page=4#comment-13

So, MonsterMinister, still on your high horse?

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MatWalker, my friend's mother took out a new fixed rate bond with HSBC in the UK in July, using her address in Japan. She just filled in a form registering that she lived abroad and didn't intend to come and live in the UK. I can't comment on your personal situation with regard to opening onshore bank accounts (perhaps it's because you're still domiciled in the UK? I really have no idea what the law is for ex-pats).

As regards the comment about people with over £50k savings, I was talking about people with over £50k in Icesave (Landsbanki) in the UK, not the people described in the article. Apologies, I should have made myself clear.

I'm just truly sorry you didn't notice that Iceland was on the verge of collapse before you loaned Kaupthing your money. Don't forget that you're a creditor in Kaupthing, and as such will receive an (as yet) undetermined payout in the future, which is dependent on the performance of their own loans, even if you get no joy elsewhere.

MM

yaderef said

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On the aspect of tax avoidance, I do have some sympathy with investors. My father was stricken with Dementia last year & had to go into care. I had to sell his home to pay his care fees and bought a fixed term bond with the proceeds from the property. But the interest on that bond is taxed! So the situation is that he is saving the State the cost of his care fees, and at the same time paying back 20% of the interest earned!
With the ongoing fall in interest rates, his income will be insufficient to meet the fees and his capital will fall. Ultimately that will mean he is unable to pay the fees - so the State will have to fork out!
I feel very strongly that income used to pay for what would otherwise be funded by the State should be tax-free - and one way to achieve that would be to use offshore accounts (though I'm glad I didn't!)

winningd said

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Those living in the United Areab Emirates have 100% Government guarentee for 3years and high interest rate & no taxation

Re IOM & CI banks,I don't think it is so much geographical location but the status of the Bank. Can you imagine HSBC Jersey being allowed to crash?
UBS AG Jersey is a branch of UBS Swtzerland and as far as I have been informed is fully supported by the government

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Like any prudent business person I put my (small) contingency funds on deposit to gain the best interest in the best interests of the business. KSF had the best interest rate and so I put the money there. I live and work on the IOM so we try to use the IOM banks and other businesses. Unfortunately for my business the bank went down and I have lost my business contingency fund. Whatno-one has mentioned in all this punch and counter punch about saving with on-shore and off-shore banks is that we who live and work on the island also have to put our savings somewhere. Also unfortunately, the 50,000 cover for depositors is only for individuals so if you are a company you are not covered. If the receiver and the FSC are able to get the UK government to release the IOM banks funds then we should get our money back but it is a forlorn hope seeing what the UK government is doing about it all. They want to use the IOM banks money to help with the guarantee that they gave that no-one will lose their money.

JLM553 said

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I was an offshore worker and returned to these shores over three years ago. I have been paying tax on my interest since declaring my account to HMCR. Where is my protection? Luckily I only have a minimum amount in the bank but it is still a shock to realise that it may be unrecoverable. If we pay tax, we should be covered by the UK government.

Ally68 said

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Just to get the point over again

No one in Kaupthing Isle of Man is asking the UK government to bail them out.

All they are asking for is for the UK government to return the funds that were frozen when the UK governement rather hastily placed Kaupthing UK into administration.

No bail out just THEIR MONEY back.

justb said

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I am still surprised as to the amount of money that people keep with one institution. Even my meagre savings are spread around just in case.

I feel huge sympathy for these investors, they have not put their money in risky investments but simply wanted a place to keep it rather than under the bed.

I really hope that a solution can be found.

ossigeno said

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The Kaupthing Isle of Man collapse was a side-effect of the UK seizing Kaupthing UK.

So where is the Kaupthing Isle of Man depositors money?

Well there was GBP821M total Kaupthing Isle of Man deposits.

GBP550M is frozen in Kaupthing UK.
GBP£165M is in Iceland.
GBP103M is under control of the Kaupthing IoM administrator PwC.

Thus Kaupthing IoM depositors merely want those holding their money (mainly the UK but also Iceland) to return their money. Not an unreasonable request I would have thought.

No request or requirement for UK taxpayers to pay for anything.

grant215 said

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Sympathy is easy but financial support in times of hardship is different.
I assumme these funds do not contribute to the UK exchequer and non-resident workers also avoid our taxation.
I would prefer our government to focus on those fully committed to UK plc.

FFScotland said

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The problem, Ally68, is that I think you are asking for a bailout from the UK government. The UK government doesn't have obligations to savers in the Isle of Man, unless it has a relationship with them. I just don't see the connection.

I am aware of the £600 million KSF IOM deposited with the UK bank, which would make them creditors of KSF UK, presumably alongside the UK government because of the UK savers' guarantee. KSF can't pay either because the cash doesn't exist.

I suppose someone could sue the KSF UK liquidators if they have discriminated against KSF IOM relative to other creditors. Unlikely to succeed, I imagine.

Correct me if I am wrong. I have asked this question elsewhere without getting a clear answer.

Ally68 said

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As the UK government have stated that no UK citizens will lose out in the banking crisis they should have thought through the consequences of their actions.

1) Most savers are British citizens working abroad
2) Isle of Man born people are British citizens

Therefore the UK government’s action has directly led to UK citizens losing funds in the banking crisis so their pledge is meaningless. Perhaps what they should have said was people living in the UK would not lose but they didn’t they said UK citizens will not lose.

Before taking such drastic action the UK Treasury and FSA should have thought through the implications. Only today the Barnsley Building Society has had to go running to the Yorkshire Building Society as some of its funds are locked up in Kaupthing Singer and Freidlander. Should not the FSA, before placing Kaupthing UK in to administration, ensured there was no significant collateral damage? Surely a warning to the FSC in the Isle of Man would not have gone amiss?

Also today it seems likely that the UK government is going to loan Iceland the money to pay back UK savers. Well why didn’t it just try to keep the banks going in the first place? Kaupthing Singer and Freidlander asked for UK help (as it was a UK bank) and was flatly refused and then placed in to administration. However the government still has to pay out due to its collapse. Surely it would have been better simply to keep the bank trading?

What the depositors are saying is that it’s not right for the UK government to say depositors will not lose out in the UK by using other depositor’s money to pay these pledges.

Also they are wrong to state no UK citizens will lose out when their action have directly led to UK citizens losing out.

UK government give their money back!

debtwagon said

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When we put some money into a non-mutual savings institution of some kind, we like to think it's "entrusted" to that organisation but that it's still "our" money. However, that institution has probably fowarded your money somewhere else - it's not really looking after it. You've really just put your money into a global machine of our collective devising. If it gets lost in that machine, are you really entitled to have someone else pay it back to you?

lifesasod said

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Justb: Like Mat Walker, and others, I sold my house last year and put the money into one account while I made arrangements to open new accounts in my new home country and get myself organised with a house etc. The organisation took several months. Putting all your money into one account under these circumstances may not be wise...with the benefit of hindsight, but it's perfectly understandable. Opening any account, and in particular opening offshore accounts, can be a long and tedious process, given the requirement for ID documents to be certified (difficult and sometimes, expensive, when you're in a foreign country). I had a year in which to spread my money around, but I could very well have found myself in Mat's position. I am astounded at the malice and the schadenfreude evident in so many of the postings, both here and elsewhere. The facts are: the victims of this fiasco have paid or do pay tax in the UK; mostly they are British citizens; they cannot open accounts on UK mainland; they are being treated as "collateral damage" by an incompetent Prime Minister and his minions who have STOLEN these people's money by ill-thought out precipitous action, but Brown is too busy enjoying his "Falklands moment" and the spiteful among you are too busy being smug to extend a little compassion to many, many, many prudent ordinary people whose lives have been dismantled. - Cliff, thank you for writing the facts.

suewhistle said

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It's just not true that if you live abroad you are not able to have UK accounts. I maintain 3 that I had beforehand, and since the statements are sent to me here abroad - yes, the banks do know. I do pay tax on any interest but that is a fact of life in many places. You can ask the bank for interest to be paid tax-free, but as my other UK income is over the tax threshold I don't bother.

FFScotland said

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The FSA has rules about these things. As far as I know, KSF was technically bankrupt and the FSA had no choice but to put it into administration.

I really question whether the "The UK government stole our money and they should pay it back" approach will work.

Firstly it's aggressive and disinclines people from helping unless they have no choice.

Secondly, even if they privately agree with you - which they probably don't - they would open themselves to all sort of liabilities if they admit their "wrong".

Much better I think to tackle the Isle of Man government. They have a clear obligation to savers in their domain. Also, it's their banking system that's in question.

Perhaps the UK government could then lend the Manx government £600 million on favourable terms, which would allow them in turn to reimburse the savers they are responsible for. The loan could then be repaid by a levy on IOM taxpayers and companies, who currently benefit from low rates of taxation.

suewhistle said

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I don't lack sympathy lifesasod, particularly for people caught in transitional circumstances or investing on behalf of others as described in some of the other posts. But if anybody moves abroad from the UK I find it hard to believe that they don't maintain banking links, if only for the known difficulties of opening accounts. If you go offshore you do it for the perceived advantages of being tax-free or a better rate. Never forget there is a risk-reward calculation that many seem to be ignoring, and that is possibly where lack of sympathy lies.

selimap said

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Article says: "Given that their deposits are not unprotected by the UK government" - which means that they ARE protected?

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Well said, Lifesasod.
The sort of people who think what the UK govt has done is OK, are just the sort of "I'm all right Jack" con merchants who got us all into this mess.
Unless ordinary citizens can trust the government and basic financial institutions, chaos will ensue.
Governments in the US and UK (and others)seem to becoming more and more authoritarian.
I urge thinking people to throw both established parties out at the next election, and get the Lib Dems to change to PR as they promise. Then we would have a bit of opposition to a dictator labelled Prime Minister.
Brown wrecked private and company pensions,
British Energy, Equitable Life, allowed the continued decline of our farming, fishing and manufacturing industries, and thought the ridiculous over-borrowing to buy houses at ridiculous prices was a Good thing!

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> Ally68 22 Oct 2008, 11:03am
>
> 1) Most savers are British citizens working
> abroad

Then surely they can maintain their existing bank accounts 'back home'?

> 2) Isle of Man born people are British citizens

Not true. IoM is an 'administrative region' and not part of the UK. For example, I as a UK citizen cannot work there without a permit (and vice versa).

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Is the HSBC off shore account just as badly fixed in the Isle of Man? or is HSBC a far safer bet?

fooldiver1 said

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The money laundering regulations are another example of badly drawn up legislation by a knee-jerk government. Any criminal organisation can easily forge the required documents to open an account, yet law-abiding people have this constant harrassment of proving identity and domicile evry tiome they open a new account. I though banks talked to each other via computers so why all this hassle?

cockup said

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On Friday Oct 5th I transferred my money from KSF IOM to my UK bank but it has failed to arrive. So it seems that my money has been stolen in transit by the UK Government. How can I get it back?.

BobeyeD said

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LandOfConfusion - you do appear to be confused. The IoM is a "British Crown Dependency which, through its own parliament has a high degree of domestic legislative and political autonomy". IoM born (Manx) people are British - as is the case with similar crown dependencys such as Jersey. I am Manx but by passport is still a British one. Whilst the IoM is not in the UK (as it has it's own government) Manx people can still work in the UK.

FFScotland - I'm not sure why the Manx Government should borrow £600m from the UK Government who are holding onto KSF IoM assets. Are you serious? And as for a levy on IoM taxpayers - there's only around 40,000 of those (80,000 total population), so that's quite a levy!

Ally68 said

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Land of Confusion

Sell you house in the UK move abroad and then go back to the UK and see if the bank will up an account for you when you have no utility bill etc with a UK address.

Its not impossible I'm not saying that, but it can be very hard. Alot of banks and building just redirect you to their offshore offshoots.

Alos to clarify again the Isle of Man signed up to the EU Withholding Tax directive so if you are resident in the EU (and so the UK) any interest earned in the Isle of Man is taxed at source at 20% exactly the same as in the UK.

Kitxp123 said

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The IOM, Jersey and Guernsey are all Crown Dependencies, not members of the UK, ie. they are ultimately the responsibility their own governements.

The fact that they are 'owned' by Queen Liz is irrelevant as she does not run the treasury, the UK Government does.

I don't understand where the confusion lies.

And the 'we are simply asking for our money back' statement is ridiculous; if they had the money they wouldn't have gone into receivership to begin with.
The whole point is that lots of peoples money has gone into a black hole and no longer exists!

FFScotland said

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BobeyeD,

I'm deadly serious. The UK government aren't holding onto KSF IoM assets. The money doesn't exist: that's why KSF are bankrupt.

Someone might prove, in court, that the UK government acted wrongfully and therefore it has a liability towards KSF IOM. Otherwise it doesn't have any obligations towards savers in IOM banks. That's the responsibility of the IOM government.

Given that, why should UK citizens paying high rates of tax bail out your banking system while you pay low rates of tax?

realdelia said

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I am sorry, and a little surprised, that you’re perpetrating this untruth about non-UK residents finding it difficult, even impossible, to open a UK bank account – one second on Google turns up a number of mainstream UK banks positively keen to take such deposits:

http://www.bankofscotlandhalifax.co.uk/savings/non-ukresidents.asp
“NON-UK RESIDENTS
Many of our savings accounts are available to non-UK residents. People who are 'not ordinarily resident in the UK' can register their accounts to have interest paid gross (without deduction of income tax). 'Not ordinarily resident in the UK' usually applies to:
• British expatriates living or working abroad
• Non-British nationals
• Foreign students or nationals temporarily living in the UK”
http://www.bankofscotlandhalifax.co.uk/savings/nonukcustomerrates.asp
“Non-UK Customer Rates
These rates apply to customers classed as 'not ordinarily resident in the UK' for tax purposes and who can register their UK accounts to receive interest paid gross. This means British expatriates living or working abroad, non-British nationals, or foreign students or nationals temporarily living in the UK.”
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/community/forums/t/non-uk-residents-uk-bank-savings-accounts-25614.aspx
Q. I am a non UK resident. I am looking for two or three UK Bank Savings account which are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme for 100% of £35,000. Please advise.
A. My advice would be to stick with the larger high street banks and building societies. There's a form to fill in to make sure that you don't pay too much tax. If you visit a few branches and ask for this form, you will also find out who has good customer service•
Etc. etc.

ossigeno said

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Realdelia and all the other brand Fools registered in the last day & never posted on any other Foolish thread, I suspect you have an agenda but I'm not sure what it is.

BobeyeD said

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No agenda ossigeno - use the fool site quite regularly & as an IoM resident this thread is clearly of interest......but I simply can't understand the view that the IoM taxpayer should be accountable for the miguided actions of the UK Gov in freezing the assets of a KSF subsidiary. As has been stated, this has directly impacted on UK nationals that the UK Gov claim to be trying to protect.

I note however that the UK Gov are taking up with Iceland on the IoM Gov's behalf their previous pledge to honor their guarantee to depositors. Here's a related link:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/politics/UK-to-represent-Isle-of.4594663.jp

Prafulck said

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Since the BCCI bank fiasco a few years back,whereby hundreds of savers lost their life savings,savers should have made sure from then on not to park their savings in accounts paying the highest interest rates and these accounts not coming under UK's FSA jurisdiction. The savers were mostly British Asians with UK citizenship but the UK Govt. did not lift a finger on their behalf.
I am sure a few years from now the history may repeat again as people do not learn any lessons.

jobreeze said

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If my understanding is correct, the UK government froze money in the UK that might otherwise have been returned to the Isle of Man/Guernsey to depositors, but no more specifically belongs to them than to UK or Icelandic depositors.

In acting to preserve the best interests of UK citizens, Brown and Darling have ultimately ruined the lives of UK and non-UK residents who were depositing offshore.

Anyone who has a look at their action group site linked in the main article cannot fail to be moved by the stories of the impact this has had on people’s lives, or to admire the way in which they have mobilized to do something about it.

It is easy to be wise after the event – I am a qualified accountant who should therefore be a) financially astute and b) prudent and yet had placed all my life savings in a fixed term deposit with HBOS without having any idea that the bank might be in trouble or that my protection was capped at 35k. Bank failures used to be so rare.

Ultimately this now boils down to a political and legal minefield between the 3 countries involved, and I make no attempt to guess the solution. What is clear is that someone will have to stump up the money to bail them out, as insufficient assets exist.

I cannot honestly say I would happily like the UK taxpayer to cover yet another 1billion or so on top of what we have already plunged into this financial mess (including 3billion to Iceland to reimburse UK Icesavers). No doubt Iceland will feel the same, and of course the offshore governments do not have access to those kind of funds.

However, I wish the depositors every success in getting as much money back and as soon as possible. Noone deserves to have their lives ruined like this.

madf001 said

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It seems ridiculous that UK citizens are stopped from putting their savings in the UK.

The role played by channel islands, isle of man, luxembourg etc in terms of tax+vat avoidance for UK,EU citizens and corporations such as TESCO should also go under the microscope.

mickgjames said

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There seems to be a genuine confusion here: according to the article "strict money-laundering regulations prevented them from banking their cash in the UK" yet other posters claim it would have been (and is) perfectly possible to open as UK bank account as a non-resident.

The Fool should clear this up.

Candymandy said

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Interesting article. However, I don't quite know what to make of your comment 'Although the upgraded IoM scheme now covers the first £50,000 on deposit per person, the IoM government simply doesn’t have the cash to pay out £350 million (7,000 x £50,000).'

Are you saying the IoM depositor guarantee scheme is basically worthless and savers should not assume their deposits are protected? Does anyone know what the IoM government position is on this? It obviously affects many more savers than just the poor people with money in IoM Kaupthing and Landsbanki.

sosnovka said

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You're 100% right - the pot is empty.

To add to this entertaining reading (although I don't think this will get posted) the truth about UK is that there are NO RULES anywhere and everything can be bent. I was a tourist with no right to work and yet a friendly phone call from a somebody to a bank manager of the local BARCLAYS secured me not only a bank account (with absolutely no documentation) but a credit card as well. I will stop here although I got much more then that. Rules? Please, don't make me laugh. It is those people who try to do everything BY the rules that always get shafted. Like being honest about where they live.

Anybody here that thinks it is easy to open a UK bank account (even if you live there!) are in cloud cuckoo land. And to the halifax link for non-UK residents, just when exactly did that become a possibility? After the bail-out or before?

Those who snide here count yourself lucky that this tragedy didn't happen to you.

I personally can't bear to think about what will happen to people who have lost everything especially those who were planning for their retirement.

Oh, and to contributing to the tax issue -

next time you shop at TESKO's remember that that behemoth steals from you by LEGALLY AVOIDING TO PAY UK TAXES. Have a good shopping trip, every little helps I hear.

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The trouble now is that we can't believe any assurances from banks, financial regulators or governments that our hard-earned savings are safe. The KSF IoM depositors were assured by a parental guarantee from Kaupthing hf, they let us down. When that was nationalised you'd think the Icelandic government would take on the bank's obligations as well as their assets, but they let us down. Then we depend on the IOM's Depositors Compensation Scheme... but even though I sensibly kept my deposit below the 'guaranteed' £50k, it seems their coffers are as empty as their promises.

Why will anyone save their money in the future?

run668 said

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Thanks for the article and the stats. Let me give another example of what kind of people bank offshore and why.

I am one of the 9 mentioned in your article who are neither UK residents or UK nationals. I am a United Nations staff who recently lived in Bosnia, Kenya, Afghanistan and currently Thailand.I have lived outside my home country for over 21 years now. I never had a bank account to receive a salary in my home country since I left as I was finishing high-school. My income is already tax free due to the source (UN), so there is no incentive in cheating.

An offshore account is the ONLY possibility for people like me to ensure that they have access with minimal hassle to their income anywhere in the world or each time they move to another country.

Yes. I do believe that the actions of the UK government and the lack of coordination between the UK and IoM regulators were what caused our predicament and they should both take responsibility.

The IoM did take some responsibility and sent me a cheque for the GBP 50,000 deposit protection they had promised. The UK government still refuses any acknowledgement.

bellyup said

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This terrible saga continues with the IOM treasury minister Mr Alan Bell dimssing depositors as 'collateral damage'.

All other countries except the Isle of man Jersy and Gurensey have paid out their depositors some with interest.

The IOM has chosen to  actually blame  its depositors for depositing with them.

Mr John Aspen told a financial group that KSF savers were 'uneducated investors ' and basicall should have known better.

Bear in mind many of these people were elderey retirees that had originally placed their savings in the Derbyshire Building Society that was taken over by KSF in 2007

Tony Shearer the MD of Singer Friedlander  that was also taken over redflagged the FSA  on two occasions that kaupthing was not suitable to run a bank and that there was grave risk to the depositors .

He was ignored.

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