Cut your petrol bill by 50%

Szu Ping Chan
by Lovemoney Staff Szu Ping Chan on 25 July 2008  |  Comments 69 comments

Here's one unique way you could potentially slash 50% off your petrol bill.

Cut your petrol bill by 50%

If you’ve filled up at the pumps recently, the rising cost of fuel has probably left a residual squeeze on your wallet.

The good news is, the supermarkets have recently entered a fuel price war, with Morrisons slashing the cost of its petrol and diesel by 2p a litre today. Asda immediately responded by announcing it too will be cutting its prices. This follows earlier price cuts by supermarket giants Tesco and Sainsbury's. In total, it means that prices have fallen by as much as 5p a litre in some forecourts over the past week.

Even so, there's no doubt that fuel costs remain high. We highlighted how you could cut your petrol costs by a third, and lovemoney.com readers chipped in some more handy ideas of their own, which you can read at the bottom of the article.

But could there be a longer term answer to this problem? Well, one solution could be to shun the petrol pumps and switch to LPG fuel.

Big benefits?

Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) or Autogas is another 'green' alternative to the traditional petrol or diesel engine.

By far the biggest benefit to converting your car is that fuel typically costs about half the price of standard petrol and diesel. You either buy a new car which uses LPG, or convert your existing car.

LPG in practice

That’s all very well, but how does it all work?

In order to convert your car, you will need to take it to a professional who will fit a second, independent fuel system with its own tank to the car, often in the space where your spare tyre would sit.

Once the conversion has taken place, you need to inform both your insurer and the DVLA that you have made the changes (your insurance premiums should not increase, provided it is fitted by an LPGA approved installer). You are then free to drive round, paying around half the price of your petrol compatriots.

And, as LPG is considered a ‘green’ fuel, if you drive in the capital you will also be exempt from the London Congestion Charge.

If you’re worried about the availability of LPG fuel, refuelling spots are becoming more common, though in some places they are still hard to come by.

Money saving site petrolprices.com will tell you the nearest stations supplying LPG fuel in your area. Simply register, tell it how far you’re willing to travel and it will inform you of the cheapest refuelling spots where you live.

In addition, UKLPG - the trade association for LPG - has a list of authorised retailers approved to convert your car, together with some handy hints if you’re considering changing over to LPG.

Related how-to guide

Buy a car for less

A car is a significant purchase. Take your time and ensure that you get the best possible deal.

Car number crunching

Well, that’s how it works. But is it really worth it?

Firstly, you have to consider how long it will take you to recoup the initial outlay for the conversion, which will set you back around £1,600 for a car or small van. To help illustrate this, let’s look at a couple of examples.

For instance, if you were a frequent driver, filling up your 55 litre Ford Focus once a week at 121p a litre*, a full tank would cost you £66.55 a week, or £3,460.60 a year.

One key point about LPG fuel is that although prices are half that of petrol, you don’t get as many miles per gallon with LPG fuel as you would with petrol, and 70 litres of LPG (66.1p a litre) will probably take you as far as around 50 litres of petrol.

So, in the interests of a fair comparison, a full (70 litre) tank of LPG will cost you £46.27 for the same week’s worth, or £2,406.04 a year.

Despite these adjustments, in this case, converting to LPG would still save you £1,054.56 a year, and you could recoup the cost of converting your car within just two years.

However, drive less frequently, and the savings are reduced. Using the examples above, if you only filled up once a fortnight, your savings would be cut to just £527.28 a year, and you would need around three years to recoup your costs.

Who will benefit?

I must admit when I first read about the benefits of LPG, I was very excited. On second thoughts, however, I realised the downsides are significant. As well as the extra space the tank will take up in your boot, if you don’t drive that much, it may take you a very long time to break even.

So, if you’re someone who clocks up a lot of miles, then converting your car might be worth it. As for the rest of us, we may be better off trying to make the most of the car we already have.

Rachel Robson takes a look at which car brands come out best in terms of value for money.

And, if you're a low user, you may even want to consider giving up your car altogether. Car clubs, for example, can be a good idea, and although schemes are usually confined to big cities, they could end up saving you a packet. You can read more about car clubs in the article, Cut your car costs in one easy step.

Alternatively, if you want to improve your fuel economy while beating road tax rises, you could always switch to a diesel car. With diesel fuel approaching £1.23 a litre, you may be put off -- but these cars provide a more economical, and cleaner way to get around. You can read more about this in Drive down your car costs.

LPG may sound like a dramatic step, but as we all know, sometimes desperate times call for drastic, if not desperate measures. Weigh up whether it is worth your while, because although it may sound like a radical step, making the right choice could soon mean you're laughing all the way to the bank.

*Petrol and LPG prices were taken from petrolprices.com on Thursday 20th May 2010.

This is a classic article which has recently been updated.

More: Buy a bargain new car online | Drive a brand new car for less

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Comments (69)

  • bobfruit
    Love rating 0
    bobfruit said

    Another point to consider is that as LPG grows in popularity, it then presents itself as a tax point for the Government. I understand they have made assurances on not heavily taxing LPG for the moment, but in years to come, you could see it taxed such that it's priced up there with diesel and petrol.

    However, http://www.boostlpg.co.uk/ had this to say with regard to duty on LPG:

    • The fuel duty increases planned for the 1st April will now take place on 1st October 2008. At this time duty on LPG will increase only by .135p per litre more than petrol/diesel.
    • As previously announced, on 1st April 2009 fuel duty on LPG will rise by .035p per litre more than petrol / diesel
    • On 1st April 2010 all fuel duty rates will increase by .5p per litre plus inflation. As a result the specific duty rate will not be known until then.
    • This means that the price of LPG at the pumps should continue at around half the price of petrol and diesel for the foreseeable future.

    Report on 25 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • shortarmlongpock
    Love rating 0
    shortarmlongpock said

    You say that LPG may sound like a desperate step - but is less so if you make the change when you are changing car. I drive oldish cars and I'm now on my second lpg jeep. This cost me 1700 second-hand, probably less than the lpg conversion would have cost. It has a reduced size petrol tank and an lpg tank underneath, so no space lost. I cost me 18p a mile to run which is about the same as our (equally elderly) 1600cc Toyota. LPG - way to go!

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  • shortarmlongpock
    Love rating 0
    shortarmlongpock said

    Only some of them are congestion charge free so check before you spend your money if that is important to you.

    Report on 26 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • stephenoliver
    Love rating 0
    stephenoliver said

    You can't take your car onto eurotunnel with LPG either ....

    Report on 28 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Doug627586
    Love rating 2
    Doug627586 said

    `Another alternative fuel we can all use is a system called Hydroxy. It is like having a hydrogen tank in your car to assist your cars existing fuel combustion. The good news is that the system I have seen does not need a tank to store the hydrogen, as it produces its own, on demand. The results are that fuel economy is increased, better mpg is achieved and there are savings from about 20 to 60% on your existing fuel costs.
    If you go for the right system, and you know a little bit of basic mechanics yourself, you can convert your own car for under £50.00, and the conversion is fully reverseable, so there is no need to worry about your cars warranty if it is still running. Your car will still run on petrol or diesel as it currently does, but a hydrogen mix is added to the air intake, which enables the engine to run more efficiently. If you type water fuel into your search engine, you should be able to read more. Alternatively you can go to the one I used at www.waterfuelexpert.com

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  • Iniq
    Love rating 27
    Iniq said

    Quote:

    "Another alternative fuel we can all use is a system called Hydroxy. It is like having a hydrogen tank in your car to assist your cars existing fuel combustion."

    Sorry - 'snake oil' I'm afraid.

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  • maideheadrower
    Love rating 0
    maideheadrower said

    LPG is a good fuel that has been around for many years. I bought a new LPG factory fitted Volvo S60 about six years ago. Most of the motorway service stations have LPG and there are maps to help find the filling stations. You soon get to know where they are on regular routes. Drawbacks are the gas distributors can get clogged by impurities and a new Volvo gas distribution unit is about £900 fitted. They seem to last about 60,000 miles. Also not all LPG conversions are Congestion zone exempt and the car does have to be registered to get this. Volvo have stopped doing LPG cars and have moved to Compressed Natural Gas as far as I am aware for the Swedish market. Over the last six years LPG does seem to have been pegged at half the price of standard unleaded petrol.

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  • derrick3364
    Love rating 0
    derrick3364 said

    Another thing with this conversion, that I have not noticed posted anywhere as yet, the more common LPG becomes the more the price will go up as we have all seen with diesel, after all all gas prices are going up, LPG will go the same way, another question is there is all this gas under the ice that is melting, why cant this gas be syphoned off, its yet another resorce, and with criogenics they should be able to slow the melt down.

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  • derrick3364
    Love rating 0
    derrick3364 said

    To save money for my familly I now walk to work, which is 2 miles each way and as it was suggested to me I am better of health and money wise, also I follow an Email I received I dont fill up at BP or shell as they are the biggest and greadiest they can go bust first or they have the option of dropping there prices, people have the power to move mountains, whilst you pay you will, and whilst you pay you are not thinking of your future generations, and the prices continue to grow.
    We all could be smarter, if we all thought about our lives, purchasing things on the internet, purchasing web cams and mices to talk to family and friends over the internet, all for the purpose of using the car less, post an advert in the back window of your car of where you work and the times you travel, and car share.

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  • netsrik
    Love rating 0
    netsrik said

    It's not only Eurotunnel that bars LPG vehicles. Some land-based tunnels do too, as do some city centres in France. Possibly some ferries: I'm not sure about that. These bans must indicate that LPG is regarded as more dangerous than other systems. Is there any research on this? There have perhaps not been enough accidents involving LPG vehicles for us to know if the fuel (and pressurised tank) make matters worse.

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  • mitan
    Love rating 0
    mitan said

    go to the gym I see lots of people running on machines that could be converting the energy that human beings are outputting into electric that could be fed into the natinal grid. If we had a system by which all people were encouraged to do this say: one hour a day we would have a nation of healthy people and no need for all this pollution! But of course where's the money and control in that?

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  • DitchtheCar
    Love rating 0
    DitchtheCar said

    I don't spend enough to warrant getting one, as I work from home, but my sister saves loads by buying fuel in advance with a fuel card

    I think you have to spend at least £300- £500 a month to be eligible and can buy anywhere and it saves mucking about with receipts

    you can apply online at a few places, just search for 'fuel cards' or go to http://www.businessfuelcards.co.uk

    Worth a shot!

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  • botchitt
    Love rating 0
    botchitt said

    Or, if you have a diesel car, you can convert it to run on vegetable oil and pay no fuel tax. Kits are around 500 quid, and professional installation is around as much again, so comparable with an LPG conversion. Vegetable oil can be purchased in catering size drums for 50p or so litre.

    Or brew your own biodiesel...

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  • SAPWanderer
    Love rating 0
    SAPWanderer said

    Reading down the thread of replies l notice people saying the government may increase taxes if LPG becomes popular, that there are alternative fuel sources (Hydroxy, good grief) or LG tanks being prohibited in the Eurotunnel and similar ln based tunnels.
    I am an Austalian and LPG has been widely available in Australia for some decades now. The Austalian government, rather thn increase taxes, actually pays people a AUD$2,000 incentive to switch over to LPG and you can drive your LPG car in any tunnel, in fact the article http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/37665/story.htm is a good summary.
    Sadly though out of Autralia's 10.7 million passenger cars only 25,000 to 30,000 cars currently use LPG. I suppose it is still just too easy to find a petrol pump instead of an LPG pump.
    I use www.petrolprices.com to receive e-mail updates weekly on the 5 cheapest petrol stations within 5 miles of here l live. It is not as good as LPG but it saves me some money.

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  • GladToBeGrey
    Love rating 0
    GladToBeGrey said

    At least one LPG conversion company - GreenFuel - do NOT currently avocate conversion of diesel cars to LPG due to the incompatible power outputs of the two fuels and the likelihood of engine damage. See http://www.greenfuel.org.uk/testimonials/faq#q12

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  • paintitblack
    Love rating 0
    paintitblack said

    t's not only Eurotunnel that bars LPG vehicles. Some land-based tunnels do too, as do some city centres in France. Possibly some ferries: I'm not sure about that. These bans must indicate that LPG is regarded as more dangerous than other systems. IIRC the French ban refers to older systems that don't have a safety pressure relief valve. The newer systems are supposed to have a valve that will vent the gas if pressure rises too high e.g. in the event of the car catching fire. The LPG tank is also a lot more robust than a petrol tank, so I don't think there are any safety issues.

    Totally agree with Iniq about the snake oil.

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  • thirdbrother3
    Love rating 0
    thirdbrother3 said

    'Sorry - 'snake oil' I'm afraid'
    that may not be entirely true, although paying for the information at www.waterfuelexpert.com wouldn't be the best investment as there is so much information freely available with a little googling. youtube has lots of videos with people adding hydroxy/hho/joecell convertions, with mixed results. unfortunately its still in the realms of the home inventor at the moment, although a Japanese car maker has launched a car with the system fitted. If anyone saw the mythbusters episode when they tried to build one of these systems it was pitiful. They didn't seem to want prove it correct and just bought the first (poorly conceived) plans they found on the net. watch 'who killed the electric car' to see how interested government is in alternate fuels have a look at overunity.com for some very exiting developments in this field.

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  • James123321
    Love rating 0
    James123321 said

    I bought a large estate car & converted it to gas over 4 years ago. You are actually wrong about the difference in MPG betweek LPG & petrol - this was the case for the original systems, but on the new MPI systems you don't lose much. If you buy your LPG from Countrywide it is still under 50p a litre. When I converted though, LPG was 15p a litre - so it's going up at a greater rate percentage than petrol! Buy your car carefully, because those with 'soft' valves will get through an engine head every 50K miles (see £1000 replacement). Insist on a Flashlube add-on to protect them. Refills cost another £10 every 3 months (on Ebay). My mate's factory-fit Vectra Dual-Fuel has been amazingly reliable. 4 years old now (85K miles)and no problems - I recommend one of these!!

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  • tbayley
    Love rating 0
    tbayley said

    The newer systems are supposed to have a valve that will vent the gas if pressure rises too high e.g. in the event of the car catching fire.

    I still wouldn't want to be in an enclosed space when that valve went off!

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  • Rodtp
    Love rating 0
    Rodtp said

    I had a 2 year old Grand Cherokee converted. It did 200 miles on lpg and 100miles on the petrol it had available. I put a tank in the garden and bought gas wholesale for which I paid 27p a litre to fill (1000 litres). It rapidly went up to more than the retial price. When I travelled to West Country on hols, many of the listed garages no longer sold autogas, despite having all the tanks etc in situ. In all it was a lot of trouble, anxiety and detours to find gas.I would not go that route again.

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  • rbgos
    Love rating 81
    rbgos said

    Cheapest option: buy a second-hand car that someone else has already converted to LPG! There are plenty on eBay - mostly fuel guzzlers like Discoverys and Land Cruisers with V8 engines, but some more sensible cars too. They tend to cost no more than an unconverted car, so the extra cost to you is zilch.

    One minor downside - often the tank goes in the spare wheel well, and so is about the same size as a spare wheel. This is smaller than a normal fuel tank (about 32 litres on my Subaru Legacy LPG) so you have to fill up a bit more often.

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  • bigman1925
    Love rating 0
    bigman1925 said

    Something often overlooked when comparing petrol/LPG costs is that dual fuel cars always start with petrol, and only switch over to gas when the engine has reached normal running temperature.

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  • McPhib
    Love rating 0
    McPhib said

    I was interested in the comment of Doug62758.

    After reading the article on ’waterfuelexpert’, I gather you purchase the instruction manual from them, and they in turn supply the names of stockists of the product.
    My question: How much does the product cost if the instruction manual costs $49.95??
    I would appreciate more information on this system please.

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  • Fazzersix
    Love rating 0
    Fazzersix said

    Rip off Britain end of story !

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  • gillian4andy
    Love rating 0
    gillian4andy said

    what about BIO_DIESEL for Diesel cars can be bought now from some garages @99.9 a litres theres a list a@ http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/ or even beeter make your own go to ebay and put in Bio-diesel and you get a range of bio-diesel processor or have a look at http://greenfuels.co.uk/Category/domestic-production.aspx. where youb can get a processor where you put in 50 litres of used cooking oil in press a button wait and then wheel it to your car and presto full you car up @around 30p a litre you are allowed by law now to make 2500 litre a year now without getting taxed on then your wife can make 2500litres a year without her getting taxed on then brother in law and on and on

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  • Taradiddle
    Love rating 0
    Taradiddle said

    This is a reply to 'Glad To Be Grey's' comment. It is possible to convert a diesel engine to run on LPG but it then can't be run on diesel any more, nor can it be run on petrol. The cylinder head has to be modified to accept spark plugs and the pistons have to be modified to lower the conpression ratio, just for starters. There is a firm in Milton Keynes that will do the work..... for a price!! However, a system can be fitted to a diesel engined vehicle that injects a small amount of LPG into the intake, this will give about a 10% saving on the diesel fuel bill and not really cost effective for the average motorist.

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  • nevster11
    Love rating 0
    nevster11 said

    LPG cars are not allowed through eurotunnel simply because they were not part of the tests whilst the tunnel was being built whereas petrol and diesel vehicles were. This government used to give grants on conversions to nearly new cars up to 70% but our friends in Europe didnt like that. It was deemed too much of an incentive along with the lower priced (lower taxed) fuel too!

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  • teaboy100
    Love rating 1
    teaboy100 said

    My Factory fitted Vectra LPG has done over 100k miles now. I get over 400 miles from the 48 litre tank, and my local LPG outlet sells for 55p litre. Bargain!
    LPG is a much cleaner fuel than petrol, and especially diesel.
    In response to Mainheadrower - you can clean out the distributors and vaporisers. Your volvo garage is ripping you of if they advise a new one
    just because its clogged.

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  • IanSFX
    Love rating 0
    IanSFX said

    LPG is great for the larger cars, but watch pricing, in my area the lowest is 49.9 p the highest is 64.5p with the majority around 54.9p with prices apparently decided on a rota basis

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  • bugdc
    Love rating 0
    bugdc said

    derrick3364 said:

    I follow an Email I received I dont fill up at BP or shell as they are the biggest and greadiest they can go bust first or they have the option of dropping there prices, people have the power to move mountains, whilst you pay you will, and whilst you pay you are not thinking of your future generations, and the prices continue to grow.


    Although the end of this doesn't make sense to me, the opening premise is false. (Who here believes what they read in internet chain mails?!) Boycotting Shell, BP or any other fuel forecourt will only hurt the independent owner: they are franchises owned by your neighbour, not the multinationals. Boycotting them will just put your neighbour out of business, and since oil is a commodity the other garages - which will now have increased demand - will simply buy from those suppliers to cover their increased demand.

    Since basic economics tells you that increased demand = higher prices by boycotting individual petrol stations (e.g. Shell) you may end up driving up prices in the area as the remaining stations struggle to meet the demand (worst case scenario).

    Far better to get a Shell MasterCard from CitiBank which pays back 3% on all fuel purchases. Coupled with their loyalty card which pays 0.5p per litre at current prices you can knock about 4p/litre off your fuel bill.

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  • ascentium
    Love rating 0
    ascentium said

    rgbos is right. It would appear that, on some cars, an LPG conversion adds zero to the resale value, so the most cost-effective thing to is to buy a car that has already had the LPG conversion fitted.

    This year we moved from an unleaded 1990 Bentley to an 1997 LPG Volvo V70 2.5l. Our fuel bill has come down by substantially more than half :-)


    The email chain letter about boycotting BP and Shell does seem to be written by

    EITHER:

    - Someone who doesn't understand how petrol pricing works

    OR:

    - Someone who works for EXXON/Mobil

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  • trekker22
    Love rating 0
    trekker22 said

    Thanks to doug62758 for succinct and to the point article for conversion for £50....Could I ask you enlarge on the detail/make etc and where to get instruction on this particular product...Thanks Trekker2

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  • ChristineMA
    Love rating 0
    ChristineMA said

    The simplest way of reducing your petrol bill is to reduce your speed.

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  • MostlyGeek
    Love rating 0
    MostlyGeek said

    I've been considering an LPG conversion for a while. In the end i decided against it due to the time before any savings would be made and the age of my car (97 Audi A4). However i did manage to get an extra 60 miles per tank, simply by switching to Shell's vPower fuel. It's 10p more but the extra milage makes it worth it, i expect my engine age plays a part in the results

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  • geoffaries
    Love rating 0
    geoffaries said

    I agree that on the face of it LPG looks like a good idea, but it seems that some manufacturers have stopped producing LPG version, e.g. Vauxhall also most underground carparks will not allow them, e.g. Gunwharf in Portsmouth, the problem is not so much as having a safety valve to prevent an explosion it's more to do with the fact that LPG is heavier than air and it will accumulate at the lowest point and is then virually impossible to vent to outside if it's below ground. If you have a diesel engine then try Paramount Pefromance for electronic upgrades, cost about £400 and save about 4% on mpg.

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  • YiamCross
    Love rating 0
    YiamCross said

    Ha ha to ascentium, I received a similar email imploring me to boycott Esso garages so I guess their marketing people have retaliated to restore the balance!
    I'm toying with the idea of converting my A8 to LPG but it's not all plain sailing, you have to get the right system and have it fitted properly or you'll reap more whirlwind than rewards.
    By the same token, unless you know what you're looking for you're at some risk just assuming that buying an already converted vehicle will give you all the benefits without the extra cost. You might just be buying someone else's problems.
    I also agree the probability that if enough people move from petrol to LPG the duty load will increase but the longer you leave it to convert, the less time you have to save. I do a lot of miles so I think it may be well worth it. Just held back by lack of knowledge as to what system to go for and where to have it done properly.

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  • beauwl
    Love rating 0
    beauwl said

    derrick3364 said:

    post an advert in the back window of your car of where you work and the times you travel, and car share.


    In other words,' To all potential burglars reading this: please follow me home to determine my address and here are the times I will be at work.

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  • thirdbrother3
    Love rating 0
    thirdbrother3 said

    if you want to have a look at what they're selling you for $47 at www.waterfuelexpert.com, just download from here: www.mininova.org/tor/1193857 if you get any fuel savings send them a donation, but i think there are far better versions/ methods in the pipeline(no pun intended). search hho or stanley mayer on youtube

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  • sheikhoflondon
    Love rating 0
    sheikhoflondon said

    hi i have been a fool reader for long time but never realy have bothered to coment but this time i just could not resist the way you have writen GORDON BROWN AND HIS DARLING.nice one and also your article has some very good money saving tips.thaks.

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  • orions99
    Love rating 0
    orions99 said

    Overuse of uppercase will be tamed (you can edit your comment to prevent this):

    i ran my 1997 range rover for 6 years on lpg getting an average of 16 mpg at an average third of the pump price of diesel (using countrywide sites) i have now converted my latest range rover fitted with the latest bmw engine which is so much more sophisticated and after 4 months is returning an average of 19.1mpg or nearly 60mpg to the equivalent diesel powered rr at diesel prices,i average 350 litres pm and estimate it will take just under a year to recoup the convertion outlay and of course enhance the resale value.long may it last

    And now here are some pictures to help lighten the mood

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  • Kersal12
    Love rating 0
    Kersal12 said

    I'm currently using a fuel additive that is available through www.mileslesscost.co.uk. This product from the USA guarantees 7-14% improvement in mpg. There is a full explanation on the site and it is sold in at least190 countries. I was sceptical but decided to give it a go with very good results over the last 14 months!

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  • Pilscat
    Love rating 0
    Pilscat said

    We have had two LPG cars on our fleet - both able to run on petrol as well - bought as new with a factory conversion. Unfortunately we had one problem after another with both vehicles and ended up running them entirely on petrol. Could be they have sorted these problems out but I would not buy another one.

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  • topshare
    Love rating 0
    topshare said

    Don't get sucked into the 'magic, astonishing, mega-amazing economy' claims of fuel additive suppliers. The simple fact is that once installed or added, you want the system to work and so you drive much more economically simply because you are thinking much more about it.

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  • foolstephen
    Love rating 0
    foolstephen said

    Botchitt suggests converting a diesel engine to run on vegetable oil, but I read an independent article recently that warned this was not a suitable option for the latest 'high pressure' engines.

    Report on 28 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Accountantsmum
    Love rating 0
    Accountantsmum said

    ChristineMA is absolutely right. I discovered in the first petrol crisis years ago that driving at 60 mph max instead of a good 70 saved me an astonishing 30% of the fuel I was using. My mpg went up from around 35 to nearly 50 in a Vauxhall Astra.

    Report on 28 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Kersal12
    Love rating 0
    Kersal12 said

    The advice from topshare above is of course very sound. However, I have found that using the additive, also as per me above, has not had any psychological effect on my driving a politically unwelcome 3ltr. Shogun. Being that more careful just to prove a point would have been too much of a strain for the past 14 months! As I have said to other sceptics, just give it a go. Topshare’s view is just that of one quoted as an unsubstantiated “simple fact” that is not endorsed by me or many millions of customers and user miles.

    Report on 28 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • 1Dee
    Love rating 0
    1Dee said

    My husband drove two Vauxhall Vectras that were fuelled by LPG. He found that although we live within 40 miles of London there weren't many garages selling LPG in our area. In fact there was one about 15 miles away and the other was about 6 miles away. So he had to make a point of looking out for LGP fuel wherever he went so he could buy some when he saw it. He did find that he had to fill up more than he did with petrol but as it was mentioned above this was probably because the tank was smaller taking up the space where his spare tyre should have been. Although these cars were duel fuel they were conversions after manufacture but done by a Vauxhall dealer. As also mentioned above if everyone converts then LPG will go up in price as much as diesel has. There was a time not that long ago when diesel was much cheaper than petol but now it is much more expensive!!. He now has a diesel Peugeot 307 and will not convert this or consider another LPG car. The LPG cars he was driving were firm's cars and he has been told that to have them fully serviced will cost around £900. If this is true then its no wonder that some manufacturers have stopped production as the public become aware of this fact that alone will steer them away for such cars!
    I have spoken to manufacturers of biodiesel with a mixed response. Some say that other component parts of the car can be damaged by the biodiesel and as this is even more difficult to find than LPG we decided not to bother and stick with diesel which is cleaner than petrol and doesn't do too badly for MPG.

    Report on 28 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Parsons2
    Love rating 0
    Parsons2 said

    Belgium had parking restrictions on LPG vehicles. No underground parking and ground floor only in multi storey carparks. As has been said already LPG is heavier than air and collects in low points .It is a recognised hazard in yachts as it collects in the bilges. As LPG is derived from crude oil along with diesel,petrol and jet fuel the price of crude affects all oil products.

    Report on 29 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • voiceofsanity
    Love rating 0
    voiceofsanity said

    As a 'born-again' biker, having sold my last big motorbike several years ago due to advancing years (me not the bike), I bought myself a 250cc 'Superscooter' a couple of months ago. It costs under £100 fully comp to insure (sadly no 'no-claims bonus' after a break on bikes) and returns @ 60mpg. I do a 10 mile run into work in 20 mins as opposed to 40+ mins in my people carrier and I don't experience traffic hold-ups! In a car you travel at other people's speed, on a bike you travel at your own. I've never enjoyed commuting so much. Every journey to work is fun and I'd seriously recommend trying two wheels to anyone with enough life left in 'em.

    Report on 29 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AnotherExtremist
    Love rating 0
    AnotherExtremist said

    I drive a V8 Disco, and it has a 60 litre LPG tank on it, out of which I get approx 150 miles. Unfortunately nowhere round here sells LPG, the closest place is 13 miles away. 150 miles is nothing, soon racked up in a day's work, it's becoming too much of a pain in the backside to go looking for gas for me to recommend it to anyone. I don't live in the middle of nowhere either, and yes, I do need such a silly car for my work. (Oh, and beware if you are towing any significant loads on LPG, the engine runs waaaaaay hotter under strain causing you to need re-valving if you are not careful. It's actually cheaper to tow using Unleaded!)

    Report on 29 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Questorien
    Love rating 0
    Questorien said

    Despite "advancing years", voice of sanity recommends trying two wheels to anyone with "enough life left in 'em".

    Yes, biking is cheaper and can be fun but for many it has been a quick way to dissipate the life left in 'em.

    Having recently retired, I too fancied returning to two wheels. Not just for the cost saving but for the freedom - the wind rushing past my helmet - the open road before me - the illusion of being young and free again - the ...

    Fortunately, I read an article before I bought the bike. It contained stats that clearly showed that two wheel users are much more likely to be involved in a collision (five times more I think) and far more likely to be seriously injured or killed (twenty times more I think).

    Its not just young riders either. As many of "advancing years" return to two wheels, so the toll of mature riders is increasing. The dangers have increased considerably since their youth.

    This was underlined again only yesterday when a sixty one year old "born again biker" was killed near to where I live.

    That article didn't tell me anything I didn't already know - but it did serve as a timely reminder. A reality check.

    So no, I shan't be getting a bike. Yes, I shall miss out on some fun and on some cost saving. Or will I?

    If I die earlier, how much other fun will I miss out on? And as for cost saving, how much pension (dearly purchased) will I miss out on?

    And what of my loved ones?

    The risk involved with four wheels is bad enough - roughly 60,000 injuries a year with 30,000 of those being serious, 16,000 being so serious as to be life changing and 8,000 being life ending. (These figures are very rough, being from what's left of my memory.)

    Recommending two wheels in today's traffic seems far from the voice of sanity to me.

    But you may disagree.

    Actually, I haven't (yet?) ruled out the possibility of off-road fun biking ...

    Report on 29 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • juustme
    Love rating 0
    juustme said

    As someone earlier mentioned LPG being heavier than air can tend to pool at ground level in tunnels, garages and other enclosed locations and provide wonderful "light shows" at the first display of a spark. On the plus side, cleaner oil, and less congestion charges. One alternative listed: driving slower is great if you are retired and your time has a nominal value. Bio diesel sounds good if you've got the storage room. Motorcycles are a Godsent for those on organ transplant lists (Taxpayer saves pennies by not importing extra oil but then spends 100's of thousands picking up the pieces. Public tranport is good if you want to get knifed by a hoodie or shot by police so what does that leave??
    a) telecommuting/teleworking
    b) Honda Civic GX and Phil home CNG compressor.

    Bah... I'll just wait till the Olympics finishes and the global economic meltdown occurs. WTO talks failed today so with luck Oil should be back to $20/barrel in no time! (not that I'll have a job to go to then) but the driving will be cheap !


    In all seriousness, this is just a temporary blip (like the house price inflation, or tech bubble or.....) it will pass & relative to income fuel will become reasonable again. If you are in any doubt look at the charts showing the frozen methane reserves under the ocean. There is LOTS of fuel. We didn't run out of coal by the end of the industrial revolution did we?

    Report on 30 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • dr13702
    Love rating 0
    dr13702 said

    just as a point to some of the comments here:

    The car does not need to be converted by a professional, the LPGA (a jobs for the boys quango) has drummed it into people that this is a requirement.
    I have converted 2 cars now, the LPG kit cost £600 complete and each one took 3 days of my time, i am a mechanic by trade so that does help, but each car has paid itself back in less than a year.
    Insurance companies were not worried that it was not a LPGA conversion and to be 100% sure that i had done the conversion correctly i took it to a fitter who then certified it for me and issued certification to state that the install was fitted in accordance with the LPGA code of practice, that cost me £50 per car.

    Report on 30 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AnotherExtremist
    Love rating 0
    AnotherExtremist said

    Doing your own conversion is OK if you are very competant, as dr13702 obviously is, the conversion was certified. It's not really the kind of thing that should be recommended to people trying to save a few quid, the dangers of doing a bad job are so much worse than bodging your fuel filter on your petrol car, for example. Check out Youtube and search for LPG Car Fire Tests! The difference between a petrol explosion and an LPG one is quite significant!!!

    Report on 30 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AnotherExtremist
    Love rating 0
    AnotherExtremist said

    Questorien's comments on "born-again bikers" are fair enough, but it isn't necessarily that it is more dangerous to be on a bike nowadays.

    What happens is that some old geezer sees a 1000cc sports bike, remembers his old z1000 and thinks that it will be much the same. Not so!!! A modern 600cc sports bike will wipe the floor with my old 1000RX (which was considered to be damned nippy in its day), and I mean WIPE THE FLOOR!

    These older people buy a bike of the same size as they used to ride and simply are unprepared for the massive upscale in acceleration and power compared to even 10 years ago. They simply can't handle it.
    And try telling someone "Come on Grandad, you'll be better on a nice mellow 400cc bike" when he used to ride a 1000cc. He's gonna ignore you, buy the big bike, and sooner or later find himself planted in the side of a Renault Clio which has appeared before he has time to even think what to do next.

    Questorien, buy a bike, but know your limitations. Smaller bikes are not the girls' machines of the past, don't have a crisis about your manhood, buy something practical and within your capabilities of using and being FULLY in control.

    It also helps if you haven't spent the past 25 years since your last bike driving about cocooned in a Volvo Rep-mobile, in a little world of your own, unconcerned about your interaction with other motorists. Driving is a 2 way street* - literally - you have to take how other people act into consideration, this is at the forefront of any biker's mind whilst on the road, and easily forgotten in a cage.

    * Unless it's a 1 way street, obviously, erm......arghh, you know what I mean!!!!)

    Report on 30 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AdrianStannard
    Love rating 0
    AdrianStannard said

    Oh dear some myths, didn't anybody here pay attention in science classes?

    Some pitiful ignorance of one of the most important concepts in physics: conservation of energy not to mention basic hi-school chemistry.

    I am of course referring to www.waterfuelexpert.com hydrogen "additives" to your car fuel. The hydrogen is obtained by electrolysis, which in the best set-up possible (with expensive platinum electrodes) will be about 80% efficient. The amount of chemical energy actually gained from the re-combination of oxygen and hydrogen in the combustion chamber will be the same amount energy used to split them, (it has to be, its same the binding potential of the hydrogen bond pulling the atoms together and releasing energy that had to be overcome by electrolysis). Actually, you've lost at best 20% of that energy in trying to split water, since electrolysis is never 100% efficient.

    Now, where does that electricity for electrolysis come from? Your alternator. What drives your alternator? Your car engine. When current gets drawn from your alternator, it gets harder to turn, and the engine needs more petrol to overcome the mechanical resistance of the alternator. You are therefore putting in more energy than you are extracting!

    Furthermore one is assuming the hydrogen actually makes it to the cylinder. Lone hydrogen is highly reactive and will most likely pair up and combine with oxygen before it even gets to the combustion chamber. What you will then be doing is watering down your petrol with more water, on top of what it is taking in due to the humidity in the air. Too much water and you car won't be running properly at all!

    Petroleum is used in cars for one reason: it has one of the highest chemical energy densities (second only to diesel, which has 17% more, but harder to deliver this energy quickly and produces more soot and noise, hence less-favourable use in cars). There is nothing you can add to it petrol to improve efficiency. If anything, by introducing impurities, you will be reducing it.

    It should also be noted that LPG has a lower energy density than petrol - about 75% that of petrol - the assumption of 70 litres of LPG vs 50 litres of petrol is thus slightly over-the top, more like 65 litres . The only reason LPG is in favour is the lower emissions.

    As already pointed out here, recycled cooking oil is the best bet if you want low-cost energy. And if possible, car-share or use a bike.

    Report on 31 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AdrianStannard
    Love rating 0
    AdrianStannard said

    juustme said: "We didn't run out of coal by the end of the industrial revolution did we?"

    We are still in the industrial revolution. In fact, we are still in the iron age. But yes, I agree with your point, supply and demand has nothing to do with the current price trend, which is all down to speculators who got their fingers burnt in the property market, which they mistook for a safe bet after the dot com bubble burst. There is a lot of oil, few people point out/know that Canada's Alberta sands is the second largest oil reserve in the world, about 100 years or more supply at the current usage rate.

    Report on 31 July 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Foolforabargain
    Love rating 0
    Foolforabargain said

    Congestion Charge Exemption is only granted to new vehicles on the Powershift approved list. A used example of the same vehicle given the same conversion does not qualify.

    The good news is that Powershift will contribute towards the cost of conversion.

    the Bad news is that the eligible vehicles on the list are normally the lowest spec - smallest engined varients of the car.

    The best news is it includes the V8 Chrysler Cherokee 5.7litre Hemi. Exactly the sort of car Ken Livingston had in mind for exemption!

    Report on 01 August 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • AdrianStannard
    Love rating 0
    AdrianStannard said

    Good point there Foolforabargain - the congestion charge exemption is a bit of red herring. I have a 44-year old classic car that does more than 50 mpg (a brake even point for a car that does less than 120 g/km of CO2 is if it does more than 47 mpg - this comes from the fundamental chemistry of how much CO2 is released burning petrol: 9.07 kg of CO2 per gal). Yet despite having perhaps one of the greenest car on the road (also on account of recycled parts, such as the rebuilt engine and gearbox), it seems this does not fall into the realms of congestion charge exemption which is meant to be promoting environmental friendly transport. I wonder how much CO2 is emitted in building these new vehicles on the Powershift approved list.

    Report on 03 August 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Iniq
    Love rating 27
    Iniq said

    Somewhat off-topic but:

    Remember that the best way of reducing the effect of increased road tax is to drive your car as much as possible. The more miles you drive in a year, the less the cost-per-mile.

    And the bigger and thirstier your car, the more incentive you have to drive it as much as possible. So much for this dim-witted government's pretence that higher road tax has any green benefits, especially since most owners of cars facing higher tax in future have alreaady bought their cars and cannot afford to replace them.

    Is is, of course, yet another stealth tax which has nothing to do with the environment - and Friends of Green Earthpiece are gullible enough to fall for it!

    Report on 04 August 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Perecles
    Love rating 0
    Perecles said

    For the past 8 years, and four cars, I have used the same device: an Ecoflow Motoflow 1 transferring it from car to car. It is a simple magnetic device that simply straps onto the fuel line in the engine. It has been tested by the DTI whose verdict is that it does indeed live up to the manufacturers claim to Increase power; Increase mpg and decrease emissions. It also keeps the engine (and on older cars, the spark plugs) clean. It costs £60 and is guaranteed for 10 years. It actually will last a life time. My present car, a 5 year old Avensis 2 liter diesel is currently giving me 56.8mpg. On purely motorway driving it gives over 62 at 70mph. My previous car, a 2000 Reg. Honda Civic 1300 Automatic used almost entirely in Guernsey consistently gave 18% more mpg.

    Report on 05 August 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Hanala1
    Love rating 0
    Hanala1 said

    In the last fuel crisis a friend of mine bought a load of sunflower oil from Lidl and used that in his V-Reg Diesel-fuelled Vauxhall Astra Van instead. He put in a litre of Diesel first then filled up with the sunflower oil. It did him and treat and worked beautifully for less money.

    He is not using it during the Winter because, apparently, it is not as good an idea because of the temperature change but all in all he highly recommends it. Not sure why...anti-freeze problems?

    Also, a guy on Freecycle has installed a piece of equipment into his garage that refines used cooking oil for use in vehicles and he is requesting old cooking oil. Just think about how much cooking oil we dispose of in the environment that could be refined for use in vehicles.

    Perhaps one day we will hear the cry of "any old cooking oil" instead of "any old iron" that echoed the streets of London decades ago.

    Report on 03 November 2008  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Lucas
    Love rating 0
    Lucas said

    To GladToBeGrey:

    Not only GREENFUEL inc. isn't converting diesel engines to LPG. It's impssible to convert a diesel engine, because diesel engine working in much different way as petrol engine does. Here you can check most interesting question regarding lpg conversion. http://www.autogassolutions.co.uk

    Report on 24 August 2009  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • tridral
    Love rating 0
    tridral said

    One of the simplest and cheapest ways of cutting fuel bills would have to be car sharing. It's a little less convenient for everyone involved, but it would make travelling cheaper and also reduce congestion.

    During one of the petrol shortages people started travelling together and it was remarkable how much more freely the traffic flowed.

    Report on 27 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Iamcoldsteve
    Love rating 311
    Iamcoldsteve said

    Having investigated car fires, the fuel tank rarely, if EVER, explodes. Normally they leak fuel onto the floor, which then ignites. There is no explosion from the tank. Often tyres explode, which some people think is the fuel tank.

    LPG tanks are far safer than petrol / diesel tanks in crash scenarios too.

    There are increased servicing costs though with LPG.

    BTW, this article is nearly 2 YEARS old.

    Report on 27 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • ninety-eight
    Love rating 1
    ninety-eight said

    There is a hydrogen option - in the near future. Sheffield University (or is it Hallam Univeristy in Sheffield, I forget) have a Ford Focus converted to run on hydrogen in the same way than an LPG conversion works. The hydroegen is currently generated by a mains electricity powered rig - its a large and fairly power hungry system, but they are working on a solar powered domestic hydrogen generator which they say will be about the size of a public phone box, you sit it in your garden and it makes hydrogen you can use to replace the natural gas to your home heating etc. and can power your car when converted.

    I have run LPG converted cars in the past and it is great. No noticable loss of power and way cheaper running costs.

    The downsides are as mentioned some tunnels inc. the Eurotunnel ban LPG converted cars and also some insurance companies won't insure you on LPG system which is not manufacturer fitted. Its a "modification" you see.

    The way I have done it before is to buy a car someone else has paid the money to have converted. There is little (if any) premium on the used market for LPG converted cars. So you can buy a £1500 Vauxhall Vectra or a £1500 Vauhall Vectra which runs dual fuel.   Just stick "LPG" or "autogas" in your eBay search...

    last option to save is DIY - I do most of my own servicing and repairs. This will save you a lot of money. But you can also install your own LPG system You should have it checked by a professional and they cna then supply the installation certificate you need to be able to insure it. (and if you made any mistakes installing it will point them out or fix them for a small fee). Its quite possible to convert a car for a few hundred pounds.

    Report on 27 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • philgsmith
    Love rating 2
    philgsmith said

    LPG users in the South Midlands and West might want to check out Countrywide Stores who have LPG at a number of depots in the area. They are usually a few pence lower than petrol stations and rarely a queue. Most places have a 24 hour service. 

    I had mixed experiences with converting to LPG. Doing this on a Renault V6 emphasized other engine problems and screwed up the vehicle completely - I recommend you Google your model and see what other users have found before converting - don't save a few pounds getting it done cheap if you cannot get them to guarantee the work.

    Will look at the Water Fuel thing though. I cannot see how the energy used electrolysing the water doesn't simply equal the energy created plus a bit. 

    Report on 27 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • elgin eagle
    Love rating 0
    elgin eagle said

    I converted a citroen c1 to lpg 3 years ago as i use it as a workhorse to commute to work. I was using an audi a4 diesel which was costing 60, nowadays probably 80 pounds to fill up. The conversion on the citroen cost 1000, and paid for itself after 1 year. I'd recommend getting a little car converted to anyone who does a lot of commuting miles on their own. The citroen averages 55mpg on petrol, 52mpg on gas, based on mostly 70mph motorway miles plus a bit of urban stuff, but when thats 52mpg at 58p a litre instead of 1.16, it really equates to 104mpg if you halve the cost at the pump, after the conversion costs are paid for. I don't think the vehicle industry or government wants lpg to become too popular though, they prefer to sell petrol/diesel cars, and the govt gets too much revenue from petrol or diesel in duty.

    Report on 27 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Sphex
    Love rating 5
    Sphex said

    Mixing a flammable gas into the air entering a diesel engine can improve combustion efficiency, by effectively catalysing the combustion of the liquid fuel. Diesel fuel is heavy oil. It does not vapourise completely before combustion, as petrol can, but burns mostly as tiny droplets. The larger droplets take so long to burn that they are expelled into the exhaust before combustion is complete. A small proportion of gas in the air speeds up droplet combustion in the cylinder. Warm water vapour or steam can have a similar effect in old petrol engines, by helping to vapourise the fuel. Modern petrol engines get the same effect by recirculating exhaust gas.

    This may be the reason that some hydrogen generators can improve overall fuel efficiency. It has certainly been demonstrated that injecting carefully controlled amounts of gas from a LPG or CNG tank into the airstream can give an overall improvement in diesel fuel combustion efficiency. Search for 'Ecomix' to find one such system.

    Uncontrolled hydrogen or gas mixture systems are likely to result in waste or engine damage, or to be ineffective, which is why DIY conversions have variable and often disappointing results.

    Report on 28 May 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

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