My phonecall from a scammer

Tony Levene
by Lovemoney Staff Tony Levene on 07 July 2010  |  Comments 45 comments

Find out what happened when Tony Levene got a phonecall from a scammer....

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Ring, ring, goes the phone. By the echoes on the line, it can only be a low rent call from an Indian call centre.

I'm right as a heavily accented caller asks for Mr Anthony. Indians cold-calling never understand the difference between first and surnames.

He announces himself as “Alan”, not a common name in the sub-continent. I let this pass .

And although it is sometimes difficult to make out what he is saying, “Alan” says he represents “Your Reclaim” (which has no connection to yourreclaim.co.uk)* and he has good news for me.

But first he wants to know my debts on credit cards, personal loans and mortgages.

Wipe out debts

I pluck figures out of the air - £25,000 for the unsecured card and personal borrowings and £310,000 for the mortgage.

I then expected he would try to sell me a new loan or push me into an debt management service strategy.

But no, I had this wrong. “Alan” instead insisted he could both wipe out my debts and organise a refund of the payment protection insurance premiums I had already paid (his script assumed I had one of these useless policies).

Alan said he would transfer me to his supervisor who was “an expert in claims management and debt reclaiming”.

Before he did that, however, I had to answer a few “easy questions”.

He wanted to know when I had contracted the unsecured loans so I said March 2007. This seemed to please him.

But the next stage did not please me. He asked for my credit card number – to “make sure I was who I said I was.”

I countered by asking the name of his firm and what its website was called – after all, by now, he knew all my details (or at least those I had made up) so it was only fair that I should be aware of his.

“I am not authorised to give those details due to confidentiality , Mr Anthony,” was the astonishing reply.

“Not even a little clue,” I replied but wishing to extract as much as I could from this, I did not push too hard.

What happened next?

So, strictly in the interests of research, I made up a card number. He then asked me for the three digit code on the signature strip. I said 666 – that's the number of the Beast in the Book of Revelations but he failed to get the joke. The 666 is never used on cards (or on number plates!).

Alan then asked me to authorise £495 for an “assessment”, again refusing to give me any details of the company that would assess me. My attempts to ask this basic fact were met with a stonewalling refusal to answer the question.

Curious about Alan, I asked his surname. He said “Wilson”.

“Oh, Alan, one of my best friends has that name. Let's see how you are related and give me your details so I can put him in touch with you. I'm sure he never knew he had family in India,” I said.

Alan then terminated the call.

Had it continued as Alan planned, the following would have happened.

My credit card details would be available for use (no problem as they were false!) . And a dodgy firm would have taken £495 to produce a piece of paper saying: We've looked at your details and wish to tell you our assessment says you cannot reclaim either your payment protection insurance or wipe off your debts.”

The Ministry of Justice, which regulates claims companies, has shown no interest in this scam. Fair enough as I don't know the name of any UK firm. But it should do more to warn consumers.

Find out more about Tony and the Scam Magnet blog in our video!

Award-winning scams expert Tony Levene explains why he's writing a blog about scams and why he is The Scam Magnet!

More: The scam that could ruin the Olympic Games! | The scam that won't die

* If you have been called by Your Reclaim, please let us know using the comments box below.

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Comments (45)

  • easygoing
    Love rating 156
    easygoing said

    Nice one Tony!

    Report on 10 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • marcus1
    Love rating 4
    marcus1 said

    I have an 'answer machine' and if it is someone that I know and they start to leave a message, I pick the phone up. If not and it is a 'call centre' - they hang up their call straight away although I haven't quite understood what is supposed to happen when you are already 'registered' with the 'telephone preference service - TPS? - No doubt there is an excuse because if I am 'bored' and I do answer the phone staight-away and it is from a UK 'scammer' - they usually just say that they had got my number from the 'phone-book'. I THEN JUST HANG UP AND DON'T ANSWER HA-HA!

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  • drwho
    Love rating 0
    drwho said

    rogue traders traced a nigerian scam to canada where the perpetrator lived on £9900 per month transferred from mugs in UK. When asked why he chose England he replied that we were the only people gullible enough.

    I recently have recieved queries from lloyds bank (on headed paper) which as me to call them on a mobile phone number. Oddly I believe this may be genuine but I ignore it anyway, my account is online with no problems. Strange that they contact me only to say they cannot contact me?

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  • Broke
    Love rating 5
    Broke said

    This stuff gets an award?! Really, Donna, you must find better material.

    This was so obviously a scam call my late grandma could have spotted it.

    Going off on a tangent, I have found that Indian call centres are infinitely better than U.K. ones. Their staff are polite and usually try to solve the problem. British call centres that I have had to ring just try to blow you away with excuses, or plain lies.

    Report on 10 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • paulinew
    Love rating 0
    paulinew said

    As I am a member of the TPS this has cut down massively on my phone calls, and all but wiped out the mail. However each week I get at least 10 (some weeks three times that) emails, supposedly from banks asking me to update my online security details. 99% of these from banks I have never done business with. I cannot believe anyone gives them credence. As a female I also, somewhat amusingly, get at aleast 3 emails a day offering me help to enlarge a part of my body that clearly I haven't got. So all these emails must be so random, they should just be deleted immediately along with the ones telling me I have won the lottery in a country I have never visited. Sadly while this is amusing, it's a sad fact that so many older people get bled dry by these vultures, and I cannot understand why the whole issue is not given more publicity so vulnerable people will not be taken in.

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  • Mike10613
    Love rating 599
    Mike10613 said

    I like the idea of using your answering machine to screen callers. How do you get them to turn off the 1571 service so your answering machine will work though? The guy in the Indian call centre is is a bloody idiot; just keeps saying "But it works." The call centres in India aren't always bad and the ones in Malaysia are nearly always good. The ones in Belfast have become a pain. The Halifax has one in Belfast, Eon goes for an Ant and Dec soundalike up in Newcastle. I was asked for confidential information by Barclay's on the phone once and refused. I was asked to call them back, which I did. Always check the number is correct if they ask you to call them. 

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  • DP130132
    Love rating 20
    DP130132 said

    For cold callers, suspected scams, etc., my only answers are PARDON, Pardon,,can't hear, repeat please louder!! Simple, and 100% effective!!

    Report on 10 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • digger79
    Love rating 0
    digger79 said

    I have a personalised number plate which includes 666 for my "little beast". I remember the guy at DVLA saying to me in a thick Welsh accent "are you sure you want to buy this as it's associated with the devil"?

    I suppose you are correct in so far as they don't issue that number as a general release.

    Report on 10 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Crissa
    Love rating 2
    Crissa said

    I got a very similar attempt to scam me as Tony Levene's experience. No doubt quite common now. Main difference was this guy also (I believe from an Indian call centre)- claimed to be from my main bank. (which I know is VERY HOT on security) He said I was paying PPI , but also ID Theft insurance- as he put it-illegally. And he wanted to arrange for me to have a full refund. Part of what he said was true, but in no way would I of course divulge this to him. I just said to him in a very loud voice, similar to DP130132'S advice,i CANNOT HEAR, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?  a few times and the guy just hung up. A day later an Indian woman tried the same thing, and I gave the same treatment, she also gave up pretty quickly. The other thing is if you do think there is a remote possiblity they might be of interest is to insist on having it in writing. i have tried this occasionally, and get absolutely nothing,-another scam-surprise, surprise!

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  • Jon Lavelle
    Love rating 3
    Jon Lavelle said

    Talk about 666 reminded me of one of my favourite responses to annoying telesales people:

     

    ‘Good afternoon sir, I’m doing a survey on replacement doors and windows and wondered if you have a couple of minutes to answer a few questions?’

     

    Me: ‘Oh I’m so glad you called because I’d like to talk to you about Jesus; do you know that he died to save our souls?’

     

    Try it; I did, and it worked immediately, as the woman on the end of the telephone didn’t know how to respond, other than to apologise in a confused and flustered way, and to quickly hang up.

     

    But the story doesn’t end there, as 10 minutes later the phone rang again. This time it was a man, I assume a colleague of the telesales woman, who announced himself by saying… ‘Good afternoon sir… this is the Devil!’

     

    So, when you play with fire, you also need to be prepared for instances where people play you at your own game, in this case with no less than the Devil’s fire himself!

     

    If you're interested in lots of other funny ways of getting your own back on people like this then there's a whole chapter of them in a book called "Water off a Duck's Back" - Amazon.

    Enjoy!

    Report on 10 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Captain Paralytic
    Love rating 1
    Captain Paralytic said

    Wrong about the 666 on number plates. I had a Cirtoen BX which had 666 as the number portion.

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  • ticktock
    Love rating 34
    ticktock said

    I get at least one scam call per month. The caller is only doing their job so I tell them fibs/lies. If they ask about bank details or credit cards or payment insurance, I just say; I don't have a bank account or loans and have never paid any insurance. They know they are out of luck with me.

    I've even had a call about kitchens while we were in the States, so I just asked if they could fit the kitchen in New Orleans. After many splutters from the caller they hung up.

    As said, they are only doing their job. You will never upset the boss.

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  • uutasyw
    Love rating 7
    uutasyw said

    I doubt I could have stuck on the phone as long as you were able before hanging up in disgust.

    I use Telephone Preference Service (TPS) which has stopped the nuisance phone calls I used to receive - Free to register.

    I use Mailing Preference Service Online (MPS Online) which has stopped all the junk mail I used to receive - Free to register.

    I now use a spam filter service (ClearMyMail) which has killed the spam that was becoming a problem with my email (not been offered viagra in a long time) - this is unfortunately not free but you can try it free for a month if you feel like trying it out (there are probably other companies that do the same thing but I've been happy with ClearMyMail for almost two years).

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  • mopinwil
    Love rating 0
    mopinwil said

    When  I get a cold call and I have time to have a laugh - before we start I just ask them for their name, address and say I will be billing them for £60 per hour formy time. They usually hang up.

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  • cliffhouse
    Love rating 1
    cliffhouse said

    UUtasyw if you have just one email account you can use Mailwasherpro for free, this allows you to pre-vet your emails before downloading them from the ISP/server and you can even bounce them back as though your address did not exist - works well.

    I had a similar call asking for my card details recently and when questioning the caller he said he could not give out details, so I said what planet are you from? He stuttered for a few seconds and then said he didn't understand the question, so I said, ok, what planet do you think I'm from? at which point he hung up.

    There is another company who rings round and say they will send you a mobile phone - just need your card details to verify you are who you say you are - I just said it was policy not to give details out over the phone. He was pretty insistent say I didnt understand and that my acount would not be debited any money it was purely for verification.

    Here's a question - can a company actually verify your card details without actually putting a transaction through (Paypal have a similar system of verification but they debit £1 which is then offset against your next purchase, so I assume it cannot be done).

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  • flostin
    Love rating 3
    flostin said

    Thanks for the details Tony. I always wondered how the conversation may have gone had I accepted to continue with the call I received.

    Incidentally, many yeras ago I had a car with the following reg: 666 NAA

    Flostin

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  • UpHillAllTheWay
    Love rating 38
    UpHillAllTheWay said

    Tony isn't the only scam magnet around. Quite a few people enjoy "biting the biter", and playing these people at their own game. If you have about half an hour to read it, here's the story of somebody who put considerable effort into making Nigerian scammers jump through a few hoops in an attempt to get, what was being sold to them as, a juicy carrot.

    It's quite long, but it's really funny as well.

    http://scambaiterhaven.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-butterfly-guy.html

    I had e-mail from one a while ago, offering me huge amounts if I would just give him my bank account details. I decided to play the same game, and told him I was very interested, but concerned about being scammed. I asked to meet him, and to my surprise, he agreed. He suggested Harrow in London, but I said that as he was the one with all the money, he could come to me. It didn';t put him off, and once again, he agreed, so I gave him an addrress in Jakarta.

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  • ElectricMonk
    Love rating 1
    ElectricMonk said

    Heavy breathing should be enough... If not, try talking in tongues.

    Report on 11 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • akc
    Love rating 0
    akc said

    My phone displays caller ID, and if the number is in the address book it displays the name from there.

    It is very asy to add calls from the incomng call log and I name them

    'Scam' . Since a lot of calls use the same calling centre this quickly identifies a lot of them. Others are overseas and although not filtered do display 'INTERNATIONAL'. If you do not expect overseas calls it is a good warning

    Entering the caller ID into google often gets a good indication that it is a call centre. Sadly a lot of calls are not scams but unwanted cold calls .

    http://whocallsme.com/ is one of several useful sites to identify scam calls.

    It is not totally certain though that the ID and actual caller are the same.

    If the caller is not someone you have given your number to, then their even having it to call you indicates they are untrustworthy.

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  • Anfauglir
    Love rating 8
    Anfauglir said

    Ticktock,

    You said "I get at least one scam call per month. The caller is only doing their job".

    Sorry, but if someone takes a job to call people at random to scam them, then they are just as guilty as the boss. Legitimate telesales, fine - but scammers? No, no sympathy for the caller at all.

    Report on 12 July 2010  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Iamcoldsteve
    Love rating 308
    Iamcoldsteve said

    I have laughed a little reading all this.

    What I don't understand is why some people try to find an excuse to put the phone down. Just do it if you are not happy with the call.

    Just put it down, and don't apologise for it either.

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  • Keithy
    Love rating 0
    Keithy said

    You can get a 666 number plate if you want - on sale at the DVLA website.

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  • Yorkstyke
    Love rating 89
    Yorkstyke said

    In addition to the suggestions above, try the following:

    "I need to take you through security first: What is your name, address, post code, date of birth, mother's maiden name, first school and a telephone number I can call you back on?"

    This usually stops them in their tracks, then end the call by telling them to p*ss off or some similar pleasantry.

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  • CuNNaXXa
    Love rating 362
    CuNNaXXa said

    Got a call from the Carephonewarehouse, about my phone contract. First thing they said was that they needed to take me through security. My response was, 'You rang me!'.

    Moral of this story is that you should only verify your identity if YOU ring THEM, and not the other way around.

    The other day, the phone rang, and the person on the other end asked for Alan. When I informed her that there was no Alan living here, she then proceeded to try and sell me her services. This is one clever way of getting around TPS, by making out they've misdialled. Don't fall for it.

    I also have anonymous caller reject. This only works with UK calls, as overseas calls can still be made to your phone by anonymous callers. Most of these are automated, but some are from foreign call centres.

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  • fenemore
    Love rating 202
    fenemore said

    Ref Cliffouse and his question...

    "can a company actually verify your card details without actually putting a transaction through?"

    The answer to this is Yes - it is standard practice for some organisations, especially hotels which will scan your card on arrival but doesn't get debited until you depart. If your card doesn't verify then guess what - you won't be staying the night!

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  • Boilerroombait
    Love rating 0
    Boilerroombait said

    Yorkstyke suggested taking cold callers through security first. Ho, ho, ho - love it!

    Why look for an excuse to put the phone down? If you have time, keep them on the line, hear what they have to say.

    I was called recently by a Boiler room skivvy. When I asked some basic investment questions (what's the PE ratio) he cut his losses and put the phone down.

    The next day another Skivvy called from the same firm. I was supervising builders at the time. Instead of telling Skivvy2 I was busy I kept him on the line while talking to my guys. Every now and then I'd talk to Skivvy2 and say "..aha...yeah..aha..really?..hold on..". He was on the phone for half an hour - time that he could have been using scamming someone else.

    At the end I told him that I was really interested in his investment proposal but I couldn't go over 50,000 for a first investment. I could almost literally hear him salivating over his score. I told him to call back in a few days.

    I couple of days later Skivvy2 called again. When I answered he swore at me and slammed the phone down. Obviously Skivvy2 had spoken with Skivvy1 who told him I wasn't a "John". Poor Skivvy2 saw his 20,000 grand commission evaporate before his eyes!

    So don't put the phone down on these saps - have a little fun!

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  • benlidgey
    Love rating 3
    benlidgey said

    One technique I have read, and sort of tried, is to say "oh I am interested, can you hold? I just need to turn the dinner down" and leave the phone off the hook.

    I have tried it by just going quiet, but keeping hold of the phone (so they don't find out stuff from background chit chat). Eventually they get bored and hang up. 

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  • Jerrers
    Love rating 0
    Jerrers said

    Quite oftern the phone will ring in the evening, no doubt from somebody at some tiem trying to sell their services etc

    My normal response to this after a hard days graft is to put them on speaker phone and either my son or I then have a game with them. Normally if it is a woman we flirt, and if it is a man well talk about sport and other things "manly"

    Quite amazing you have to do it at least twice, but now our evenings are a lot more peaceful, but I have to admit a little less fun.  LOL

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  • LastChip
    Love rating 92
    LastChip said

    On the rare occasions I get calls asking for information, the first thing I say is; I charge £150 per hour, with a minimum of one hour for information. Please give me your credit card details so I may charge your account now, then we can continue with the interview.

    Needless to say, that doesn't conform to the script and the interview ceases with great speed!

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  • eLJay
    Love rating 76
    eLJay said

    One effective move is just to ask them to hang on as there is someone at the door and just put the phone down or on hold - we had one person still on the line 30 minutes later and had gone after an hour. It's the cruelest thing to do as the company pays for the call and often their employees are told they cannot hang up whatever (usual 80's marketing bull).

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  • fenemore
    Love rating 202
    fenemore said

    How about those "recorded voice" calls where you hear the words "Congratulations - you have won a cruise in the Caribbean" or something similar, "press 9 for more information".

    Of course there is no cruise, and should you press 9 the only thing you will "win" is one enormous telephone bill, for it will be a seriously high premium rate call you will be making. Pressing 9 is the ONLY thing they are trying to get you to do. 

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  • spacemonkey
    Love rating 11
    spacemonkey said

    I must be dead boring. I just say 'Can I stop you there? I'm not interested. Byeeeee'. Why are we making it so complicated for ourselves? The call centres are just doing their job and I am sure that a vast amount of the telephone drones involved in scamming, don't actually realise that they are conning people until they've been there a while and realise that no-one is gettting debts written off, etc. If I was running a scam netting me £10K a month, I'm sure I'd pay somebody else buttons to make my calls for me! Not often I'm the voice of reason ...

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  • bobb
    Love rating 0
    bobb said

    My friends car has a registration of POT 666.

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  • Lucypuss
    Love rating 1
    Lucypuss said

    When I can be bothered to string out a response to unwanted calls of this kind, I've got two options. Sometimes, after they've asked a few opening questions I tell them I have a few security questions that I require them to answer before they contine, then I ask for their company's registered business address and registered company number, the name of their CEO and the name and address of their auditors, or some similar business-sounding questions - when they object, which they usually do, I tell them I can't do any business with them if they aren't willing to verify their identity. If I'm too busy to be bothered with any of that, I just stop them in mid-flow and say that I just have to put them on hold for a moment, then I put the phone next to the radio and switch on whatever music channel it's tuned to - I've no idea how long they stay on, but they've always gone by the time I check later...

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  • Tabithas nana
    Love rating 2
    Tabithas nana said

    If I have the time and can be bothered I will have a conversation with these cold call people. My favourite one was someone ringing to ask me to change mobile phone providers. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone, they replied would I like a phone for free. My response was that I thought that mobile phones were an abomination and that they should be banned, and I would never have one. The response to this was 'click'. Made me chuckle anyway.

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  • propertyspiv
    Love rating 4
    propertyspiv said

    I quite enjoy responding:

    "I'm so glad you called I really need to talk to you about:

    God or

    Life insurance........................you get the picture"

    or pretending to be hard of hearing and asking them to repeat things many times.

    i know, havent i got anything better to do; it is fun tho'

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  • brewerdave
    Love rating 1
    brewerdave said

    Just had a phone call from "Sky" telling me that my warranty has expired.

    This is the second attempt by a firm (who are not Sky) to con me into taking out an extended warranty @ ~ £9 pm

    The first time I confused them by denying that I had ever had a Sky box! The Asian lady had three goes at telling me I must have one somewhere! before she phoned off sounding bewildered.

    Slightly different this afternoon - I've told them I don't need a warranty because I've got a mate down the pub who repairs Sky boxes for virtually nothing.

    He kept telling me that my mate couldn't give me a guarantee; I said who needs a guarantee when the parts fall off the back of a lorry! This totally confused "Paul" (from Bangalore or points East) and he rang off....now for a story for the next attempt!!

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  • nolan8213
    Love rating 0
    nolan8213 said

    I run my own business and often get colds-callers on average 3 times a week. All the time it is can I speak to the "Owner of the Business" or can I speak to Mr......

    Asking the reason for the call I then say the manager is on the other line and them them to hold on a few minutes. However in knowing this is cold-call I make them waste 10-15 minutes pretending I am busy. They waste my time I waste there, you will be surprised, but a lot of the Indian callers have been known to wait up to 25mins!!!! still waiting for the manager. I am afraid I didn't know how much longer they would wait, my cordless phone baterry ran out !!!!

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  • nolan8213
    Love rating 0
    nolan8213 said

    I run my own business and often get colds-callers on average 3 times a week. All the time it is can I speak to the "Owner of the Business" or can I speak to Mr......

    Asking the reason for the call I then say the manager is on the other line and them them to hold on a few minutes. However in knowing this is cold-call I make them waste 10-15 minutes pretending I am busy. They waste my time I waste there, you will be surprised, but a lot of the Indian callers have been known to wait up to 25mins!!!! still waiting for the manager. I am afraid I didn't know how much longer they would wait, my cordless phone baterry ran out !!!!

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  • togarama
    Love rating 0
    togarama said

    My old credit card from Egg had a 666 code on the back. 

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  • hopefultom
    Love rating 43
    hopefultom said

    I agree with Yorkstike( and other contributors ) that it can be amusing to play the scammers/cold callers at their own game,but may I suggest that the correct conclusion of the call is not "P*** off! but the following

    "don't forget your call is valuable to us"

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  • The Bank Manager
    Love rating 72
    The Bank Manager said

    Perhaps it's something about my phone number or e-mail, but I don't get these approaches. I'm sorry to hear that many of you have....

    I've had no-one trying to refund my PPI and the last time I had an e-mail, that went on a phishing trip, it must have been 18 months ago, or more.

    Guess I'm lucky?

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  • Janie D
    Love rating 2
    Janie D said

    I have a phone which shows the caller's number - any I don't recognise I don't answer and let them go to the answering machine, then pick up if the caller is known to me. For double glazing / home improvement salespeople, my late mother-in-law just used to tell them burble on, then in a sweet voice told them that she lived in a council house. This usually ended the call!

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  • Jeff K
    Love rating 0
    Jeff K said

    Tony

    I'm sorry to say your wrong about the 666 I had that as the secure code on a previous card but enjoyed the blog

    Jeff

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  • krikarva
    Love rating 0
    krikarva said

    I am being bombarded at the moment, a phone call a day!!! By some Asian call- centre idiots who tell me my computer has been playing up and they're calling to help me sort it out. One female caller last week actually said that she was my son's girlfriend and that he had asked her to call me.... hmm funny that... so, they call me up, ask me to go to my screen, log in, give my e mail and password... and we know what happens next.... I generally play along with them, and fiddle around, make a cup of tea and tell them that as they already know, my computer is awfully slow, due to the problems they already know about. I can keep them hanging on this way for up to half an hour.... one day last week I had some friends around when I got the call, so each of them took the call and used a different language - again, wasting the scammer's valuable time.... don't forget, they only get paid for results, so the longer you can keep them absorbed, the more trouble they get into when they report no 'deals'!! If you don't have the luxury of time on your side... get a cheap but incredibly effective whistle by your phone...and use it!! it must hurt them enormously! But, on the serious side, do tell any oldies who really are having problems with their computers, they really are the vulnerable ones. 

    Report on 27 January 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

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