The landbanking scam part 2

Tony Levene
by Lovemoney Staff Tony Levene on 10 February 2011  |  Comments 26 comments

Following on from last week's blog post, Tony Levene reveals more about the scam that promises you big returns for investing in plots of land...

The landbanking scam part 2

Last week I told you how Yorkshire lovemoney.com fan Billy McNaught handed over £60,000 to landbanker Commercial Land which promised him a speedy fortune when the tracts of farmland it sold him received planning permission for housing.

Then I recounted how Mr McNaught paid a further £100,000 to landbanker Property Partnership, based in Bishopgate, City of London. It said its land would make him a fortune.

Mr McNaught is taking Stephen Cleeve, owner of Commercial Land, whose promises have failed to deliver, to court. He is now penniless.

But his lack of cash did not stop Property Partnership from new demands including an audacious “pay £400,000” for a “Platinum Account” - something he had never heard of.

I now have a transcript of two phone calls to Mr McNaught by Property Partnership's Michael Baxter, who describes himself as “Director of the Floor”. Here are edited highlights from Mr Baxter's first call in December. There are some inconsistencies.

Baxter: William McNaught, you are the talk of the office. Sonny Morgan, the super broker that is, broker of the year last year, he has not stopped talking about you. He said you're obviously expecting quite a large return and that you are suing someone else as well. Is that Stephen Cleeve?

McNaught: Yes. Do you know him?

Baxter: I've no idea who he is. I've heard of him just because he's doing something with regard to land which was a bit of a rip-off. …...I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. If I'd have known, you'd never have dealt with them. I wouldn't have let you. But either way, Mr Morgan has been able today to upgrade you to a Platinum Account.

McNaught: What?

Baxter: Funny thing is that every single broker here with a senior status has been allowed to choose one of their clients for a Platinum Account and Mr Morgan has chosen you. I've chosen an old friend and it's all moving forward. It seems you are quite under the market value for platinum – it's supposed to be £400,000 but he's been able to give you one for only £100,000. OK?

McNaught: What does it mean, sir?

Baxter: It means for another £100,000 you get the best account with the company. Now I don't know what liquid funds are like for you...

McNaught: None.

Baxter: It's the only way out. We're going to have to get you one. Land is a phenomenal investment. Royal Tunbridge Wells in the next 20 years, it's going to do so well.

McNaught: I won't be alive then. I'm nearly 75 and I'm still having to work.

Baxter: This level of account will literally be a godsend to you. When you get to this stage, it's not speculative, it's all very good. How long will it take you to get £100,000?

McNaught: What are you talking about. You already have £100,000 of mine. You're joking.

Baxter: No. I'm not joking at all. You're just going to have to keep with your account at the moment then. We need you to have the status of the platinum.....

Sonny Morgan was going to get you out of the market. But I think you upset him at some point so he was not able to. I think you were rude to him. Which is why he was trying to get you to platinum level. It was there for the taking but you were rude. £100,000 is the minimum but there's a chance to get it a bit lower. Maybe I could ask Mr Morgan. He's just been voted broker of the year.

Later

Baxter: If you are rude, people won't necessarily help you. Don't you dare try to give me a day to give you your money back. Without Sonny you would have no land.

McNaught: Without Sonny, I'd still have some money.

Baxter: You are obviously in the wrong investment. I'll upgrade you. I may be able to do this for 5, 10, 30, 100 grand.

McNaught: I'm already in contact with national newspapers.

Baxter: Well done, well done. What do you want? A medal?

McNaught: No. My money back.

In the second call in January, Baxter again tries to get £100,000. He also discusses 10 and 20% “fully refundable” deposits but does not say what they are for. He hints at a “Qatari” trade as the Qatars “are buying everything”. He ends up saying: “Don't waste my time. I'm in charge here. I can't help you without a deposit.”

Mr McNaught, who admits he was deceived by both landbankers, has now complained to the police.

More from this blog: Watch out for this landbanking scam | The fine line between a scam and mis-selling | A fast way to make a fortune? | The car hire scam you must not fall for | Inside the mind of a scam victim | Inside the mind of a scammer | These shameless scammers targeted a vicar | My text message from a scammer | The global warming scam that will cost you £7,500 |The tax refund scam in your inbox | My friend’s cry for help was a scam | The property scam you must not fall for |  Exclusive: One reader's £4,760 property scam | My letter from an Australian scammer The email scam you must not fall for  | The sneaky postal service scam The prize scam that says prize sucker The new scam on your doorstep  | The scam the Government uses to rob your children | Sell your car for £1,000 more than it’s worth  |Watch out: These 'bargains' are scams!  |My email from a psychic scammer  | The gambling tips scammer  | The scammer who visited me  | My phonecall with a sharedealing scammer  | The oldest scam in the book  | My phonecall from a wine investment scammer  | How I was targeted by a property scammer  |  My phonecall from a scammer  | Nine things you need to know about scams 

Award-winning scams expert Tony Levene explains why he's writing a blog about scams and why he is The Scam Magnet!

Enjoyed this? Show it some love

Twitter
General

Comments (26)

  • pirateye
    Love rating 2
    pirateye said

    this sounds exactly like these people, they are utterly horrible frausters. exactly the same threatening words they said to me. the authorities need to close them down in the interests of the public. I think they are linked with other newly formed companies such as Burnhill land investments ltd selling exactly the same plots in tunbridge well, hounslow and chalfont st peter 

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • oldhenry
    Love rating 265
    oldhenry said

    Amazing that anyone would deal with tykes tliek this. When you buy land you need a solicitor, did not they give you some advice on how dodgy this was when you did the conveyance?

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Scammers have been around for generations. The problem we have here is the rigged land market. Land can be bought for a single payment and fortunes can be made, not by adding value or putting it to good use, but by restricting supply and waiting for that change of status signature.

    The silence around LVT (land value tax) is the real villain here. Any serious economist worth their salt knows this. The problem is that an army of the uninformed can easily be whisked up at any mention of clipboard wielding Whitehall servants snooping around with the intension of amending (improving) or creating a new tax.

    In my view, LVT could abolish rates and council tax, dramatically lower income and corporation tax, kill speculation in the housing market, create affordable housing for the young and stop these land scammers dead in their tracks.

    ...but of course you won’t hear a serious prime time debate about it – I wonder why?

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Londheart
    Love rating 1
    Londheart said

    Whether or not it's right, or a scam, that people make money out of 'rezoning,' with or without insider knowledge, is a matter of opinion, but I suspect the 'lovemoney' website, in which the unsuccessful gamblers come to cry 'foul' in this and other areas, is also a bit of a scam.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • ticktock
    Love rating 34
    ticktock said

    As always, buyer beware. How can anyone hand over £100,000 on a phone call. It's a sad world when anyone is done out of their life savings/earings but, there will always be con artists. If a deal/offer sounds to good to be true, it is. If it was as good as they say, they would keep it secret so as they got all the gains/profits themselves.

    I've had phone calls offering up to 50% gains, and boy do they keep on and on even after I tell them at the start 'I'm on state pension and don't have any money' My attitude is, don't be greedy and take small profits. I suppose that's why I'm not rich.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Londheart, you make a very interesting point – what is a scam? Most scams are legal; so are scams just where the “non-establishment” try to make a fortune?

    Alistair Darling, while Chancellor of the Exchequer, flipped his house and avoided tax four times while holding this post. Of course, this was not a scam, he was just being clever. Other, “not-so-connected” MPs have recently had a different reality presented to them.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Does the American government actively scam? I personally don’t think so but it did confiscate the state of Virginia from the family of the richest British born man in Britain – The Duke of Westminster. This makes being scammed a few tens of thousands in todays money seem very insignificant.

    The funny thing is that the Duke owns the land that the US embassy in London sits on. The US government wanted to buy this land and turn the Embassy into American soil (in line with many other embassies). The Duke pointed out that he would only consider their request if they reconsidered what they took (or scammed) from his family all those years ago.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • This_is_me
    Love rating 24
    This_is_me said

    Pieple like Billy McNaught have to learn to take responsibility for the decisions that they make. What kind of idiot would pay that kind of money without doing a lot of research?

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Donna Ferguson
    Love rating 130
    Donna Ferguson said

    I am surprised that some of you exhibit not sympathy but a smug, holier-than-thou attitude and insult the poor victim publicly. Not everyone is as savvy as the readers of lovemoney.com. That's why I think it is fantastic that Tony is trying to expose these scoundrels. Everyone can fall victim to a scam - watch Tony's video to find out why. Let's all try to behave with a bit more human kindness towards victims.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • waqil42
    Love rating 1
    waqil42 said

    I wonder if Mr. McNaught would tell me where he got his lawyer and what kind of lawyer he is. I tried to find a lawyer who would take the case but all of them said that they deal in other areas of the law. I had practically the same kind of threatening response from the man who sold me land and the people who have become a front for the man now, the English Land Agency. ;If you call me dishonest or say I have swindled you by not putting the proposition accurately we will sue you'.Before I approached the Serious Fraud Agency of the government I asked the Citizens Advice Bureau for guidance in seeking legal representation and the creep who called himself an advisor there said 'I dont even believe you have a house, let alone land you purchased'. When I offered to show him the deeds I was carrying he said, 'I do not want to see them' and practically pushed me out of his office like a leper. If you ask me that is another scam that the patrons of the Citizens Advice Bureau need to investigate. So much money has been lost by decent people and crooks are sitting pretty. I really do not know why The Serious Fraud Office does not look into the matter.If I say they are part of the problem themselves I suppose I can expect them to threaten to sue me! 

     

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • rioandthelma
    Love rating 29
    rioandthelma said

    The Duke of Westminster scammed Virginia from someone (Native Indians?) in just the same way as the majority of land that Royalty "own" now.

    Now the present government is trying to sell the forestry land (another scam) that they do not morally own.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Donna, apologies if you found my posts smug or unsympathetic towards to victim – I assure you that was not the intention. I was pointing out one way of stopping these land scammers dead in their tracks – LTV.

    In addition, if the government allowed the owners of these plots to communicate and collectively gain planning permission on these plots then this wouldn’t have been a scam at all but a high yielding investment.

    You could argue it’s the draconian planning laws that make this a scam.

    On a more serious note, I actually have one of these plots of land. The bad news is that it is a very expensive piece of grass that I can put a caravan on for 28 days a year, plant what I like but not fence or hedge in. The good news is that the local council has changed the status of our plots from green belt to green wedge (whatever that really means).

    Happy to discuss with anyone who has been affected by this scam (perhaps Lovemoney could set up a user-group) but the only relief I have come across is that some, who had purchased on a credit card, tried to claim on the cards insurance for mis-selling – not sure of the outcome.

    Report on 12 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • sodit
    Love rating 127
    sodit said

    My 85 year old mother was recently approached by people selling land on which they told her there was no planning permission, but it would be easy to get. Since for the last 10 years she has been trying to get planning permission on a parcel of land that would allow infill between two existing houses, and has been repeatedly refused she asked them how they managed to get planning permission with so little difficulty. They were unable to help her, furthermore they declined to buy her parcel of land off her at a similar sum per acre that they wanted for the land they were selling. Curious that - given that such transactions are so very profitable.

    Report on 13 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • msmoneywise
    Love rating 27
    msmoneywise said

    I have been a victim of a similar land-banking scam by a company calling itself the English Land Partnership or ELP. I parted with £12,500 to buy a small plot in Leeds which was supposed to get planning permission and get developed within 18 months. I have been trying to find out how to get in touch with the company - their registered address and phone numbers no longer hold good. Has anyone else been duped by ELP and if so, any ideas on how to contact them, with a view to getting some of the money back, at least? 

    From the comments posted here, I feel lucky that I got off with as little damage to my finances as I did! Still, it was my hard-earned money, and I would hate to write it off.

    Report on 13 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  1 love
  • JW444
    Love rating 0
    JW444 said

    Dear msmoneywise

    What was the name of the solicitor involved in your ELP transaction? This is key to you getting back your money (ALL of it, not just some of it).

    In order for a landbanking scam to be carried out successfully, the landbanker/seller must maintain complete control over each transaction, at all costs. It is vital that he discourage his plot buyers/victims from instructing their own solicitor/conveyancer, who would otherwise advise their client not to be stupid enough to proceed with the purchase. The unscrupulous landbanker will therefore use every confidence trick, including the “we’ll pay your legal fees” blague.

    Accordingly, an unscrupulous landbanker/seller will achieve very little without a complicit, corrupt solicitor/conveyancing lawyer on his payroll.

    Did the landbanker/seller (ELP) encourage/deceive you into paying for your “plot”, before the land transfer deed (TP1) was sent to you for execution?

    Did you employ your own solicitor to prepare the land transfer deed (TP1)? Or were you encouraged by the the landbanker/seller to “leave all that red tape” to his solicitor?

    Did you employ your own solicitor to register the executed TP1 at HM Land Registry in your name? Or did the landbanker/seller and/or his solicitor encourage you use his solicitor to perform the registration formality?

    Whatever your answers to the above may be, your immediate recourse is to make a complaint to the Legal Ombudsman and to the Solicitors’ Regulation Authority about the solicitor who “took care” of your transaction. Since the transaction could not have possibly been carried out by the solicitor in question in your best interests as a buyer, your full losses should be made good from the Solicitors’ Indemnity Fund.

    I would also encourage Billy McNaught to make an official complaint regarding the solicitor at the fulcrum of his “transactions”, in the manner I have described. If the solicitor in question in his case is subsequently found to have breached the Solicitors’ Code of Conduct, then I see no reason why Billy McNaught should not be compensated for his losses in full from the Solicitors’ Indemnity Fund.

    Report on 13 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • eLJay
    Love rating 76
    eLJay said

    I am surprised the Serious Fraud Office are not dealing with it. The only reason that I could see for not investigation is if they already know they cannot prove fraud.

    This is the reason I bought an android phone and have call recording software on it, so I can prove what has been said to me.

    My guess is they have a suckers list, a friend of mine at the SFO outlined a case where they couldn't believe the victim had fallen for a scam from the same person after they warned them they where dealing with a con man.

    Follow the old saying - if it's too good to be true! And remember Madoff, just because you think something is legitimate doesn't mean it is. Try investing in more conventional avenues or start your own business ventures if your willing to take these risks.

    Report on 14 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Snotmee
    Love rating 8
    Snotmee said

    The fact is that anyone being offered such 'dead cert' investments only needs to ask him/herself the question "If this deal is so good, why am I being offered it?".

    Nothing in life is free and the poor victims of these scams know only too well that any deal that looks too good to be true, is indeed too good to be true.

    That doesn't mean that I have any truck whatsoever with the perpetrators. I think the advice above about finding out which solicitors were used to legitimise the transactions is excellent and probably the only way that anybody is likely to get their money back. I sincerely hope to hear in the future that the solicitors involved have been struck off and prosecuted for their part in these scams.

    Report on 14 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Aquasponge
    Love rating 38
    Aquasponge said

    Good luck for those of you who wish pursue the solicitor route – I sincerely hope you succeed and do share any feedback. Unfortunately I wouldn’t hold out much hope as these purchases were speculative and as far as Im aware there are no price parameters you have to buy and sell land at.

    My scammed land has had its status changed and this was enough for a surveyor to write a report and agree with me on a new value. This allowed the use of multiple capital allowances once sold into a company network through the directors loans account. I’m not saying this is great, but use what you have.

    During the peak periods of this land scam we had a government that were ramping up house prices, recklessly stating that they had eliminated boom and bust and sent out message after message that they intended to build 3 million plus homes, much of them on the green belt.

    If you need to blame someone for this scam then look little further than the one controlling the cold glass eye.

    Report on 14 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • StFual
    Love rating 0
    StFual said

    We also export misery.

    This company will probably close in the UK and move to Singapore, Dubai or Spain.

    UK Land banking company Profitable Plots which has previously been reported on by Tony moved to Singapore several years ago. After a few years of extracting millions of pounds  from naive Asians for worthless English greenbelt land using tired old english footballers and heavy TV and media advertising Profitable now have their own victim support blog with several hundred angry members. Profitable Plots  are also under investigation by the Singapore commercial affairs department.

    Why cant governments cooperate and share details on scammers and shut these things down before they get started. 

    Report on 15 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • jtrader
    Love rating 0
    jtrader said

    It is more advisable to invest in land with planning or with a good use such as equestrian etc. There is land for sale by owner at http://www.uklandinvestment.co.uk

    Report on 23 February 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • agent007
    Love rating 1
    agent007 said

    The information given anonymously on Property Partners was thanks to Alexander Goodrich

    Report on 06 May 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Mike54
    Love rating 0
    Mike54 said

    As a 'duped' investor with The Property Partnership, my previous conversations with Michael Baxter were when he was in a more lowly position, in fact it was a Stephen Masters who was the floor Director and that was in January this year. However, I would really like to know what is going on now as their e-mail address is closed and no response to phone calls since the middle of May.

    Report on 08 August 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Mike54
    Love rating 0
    Mike54 said

    Just discovered that The Property Partnership have ceased trading, now trying to find out what to do with this worthless land I own!

    Report on 08 August 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • pirateye
    Love rating 2
    pirateye said

    hi mike , I suggest you contact Davies Arnold Cooper solicitors in manchester-0161 839 8396. P

    Report on 12 September 2011  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • Jason Marshall
    Love rating 0
    Jason Marshall said

    If anyone has had a dealing with Commercial Land or Stephen Cleeve , I ask they contact me as I am representing one client in regards to a 'scam' by Mr Cleeve.

    Report on 27 August 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves
  • rmalik
    Love rating 0
    rmalik said

    I made this very mistake by handing over my hard earned money to a land banking company called English Land Partnership (Steven Cleeve) and threw away money in a plot of land in Wombourne, Smestow Gate. I was scammed along with 200+ plot holders back in 2004, I and a group of others are hard at work now trying to make good of the situation by creating a self-help website, we hope to still meet our goals in the future. So if you invested with ELP in the Wombourne, Smestow Gate site then please visit the above site and join forces with us on www.wombourneplotholders.co.uk

    Report on 08 October 2012  |  Love thisLove  0 loves

Post a comment

Sign in or register to post a reply.

Our top deals

Credit card
company
Balance transfers rate and period Representative
APR
Apply
now

Barclaycard 27Mth Platinum Visa

0% for 27 months (3.5% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 18.9% PA (variable). BT fee is reduced from 3.9% to 3.5% (T&Cs apply).

Barclaycard 25Mth Platinum Visa

0% for 25 months (2.4% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 18.9% PA (variable). BT fee is reduced from 3.5% to 2.4% (T&Cs apply)

Halifax BT 25 Month MasterCard

0% for 25 months (2.5% fee) Representative 18.9% APR (variable) Apply
Representative example: assumed borrowing of £1,200, representative 18.9% APR (variable). Purchase rate 19.0% PA (variable).
W3C  Thank you for using CGWEBLIV3